Your top 10 greatest Heavyweight of all time?

No Terry Norris ? Figured you would say at a catchweight, he beats them all !!

 

He is the little boy who just can`t be ignored... Issues stemming from childhood obviously... Come on Eloy, stomp your little feet...

 

I did not realize your question was loaded with a heavy slant toward Lennox. No problem. Lets get into this.

I admited a few things that you did not need to repeat. I gave Lewis credit for having size advantage. Dempsey weighed 180 for the Willard fight. Fine he weighed 180 for the Willard fight. You put Lennox at 230-240 or more throughout his career. Give him a 50-60 weight advantage throughout his career whereas you hold Dempsey to one fight. Dempsey weighed as much as 193 in his career. 230-193 = 37 pounds or "30-odd pounds" like I stated.

Final question on weight. Who is better? Slimmer faster 230 Lennox or overweight slower 250 Lewis? I would take there slimmer version and throw out the unneccesary 20 pounds.

I admitted that Willard and Firpo were not of Lennox's skill. Neither of them are in my top 10 or 20 of 30. You trash all of Dempsey's opponents as trash. OK, he took them out like trash. Lennox did not always do that even against a old Crusier weight Holyfield. A completely useless Tua was a jab punching bag, yet there was Lennox standing there jabbing away, not taking one chance. McCall and Rahman did not get a mention. I guess they are both great than Dempsey as well?

I think Lennox is a great great fighter. I do not think he can beat Dempsey. I gave my reasons you gave me yours. I respect that part of your post even though I do not agree with it. (The Dempsey compared to Morrison part). Weight over everything else is nothing new around here. Boxing is not wrestling. Speed kills.

 

I like H2H because I cannot see Klitschko beating prime Tyson even though he has more title defenses. I am OK with the Liston thing but the quitter things has a couple of caveats. (1) Liston fought through a broken jaw. That alone makes him certified tough. (2) The Ali quits were both weird for a guy who fought through a brokeb jaw. Similar to Duran quitting. It does not jive with the normal character of the fighter.

I do know that Liston is a controversal name to put so high up. I respect that most fans will not be so comfortable with higher than say 7-9.

I'm cool with it.

 

Elroy is probably the only person who has ever taken argument that boxing should have developed along the same lines as track sports, to its logical conclusion.

Other people merely steal its clothes to further their own agenda!

 

:deal This

Plus in addition my favourite version of Lewis was the Ruddock version - I think all things considered that was the night everything was at optimum for him - and Lennox in that one was 227lbs - that version was miles better than the later 240 version - as alluded to above, unnecessary weight - Lewis just became more plodding and took his time more - the younger Lewis mix of size and speed was what set him apart from the rest of the lumbering lummoxs of the day - he had something closer to the lighter fighters of previous years then - the speed - and for a big guy was refreshing to see - when he put on 20 pounds it really annoyed me because he just became another lumbering flatfooted lummox like everyone else in the era

 

Peak Louyis outweighed Dempsey by 60 lbs., more if you believe Dempsey that he was 180 vs. Willard. The big guys Dempsey best were not nearly as good as Louis. Willard had barely fought at all since he beat Johnson for the title approaching 4 years ago & was 37 & soft then. Dempsey would not have a good chance, when you combine the massive size difference with Dempsey having some significant skills limitations in defense.

 

I agree with Eloy that Haye is right up there ! He of small testicles ,shaky chin and a joke of an alphabet title holder. Right behind him just has to be Don ****ell !

 

No wiser words were spoken Waynegrade. Who could deny the heavyweight greatness of the Hayemaker, or Ross Puritty for that matter?

 

Louis frequently got knocked down by guys with decent punches. Although usually these were flash knockdowns (though not always - Schmeling I, for instance), some people might think he'd be vulnerable to a puncher like Dempsey.

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* - Never mind...tell you shortly.

 

Lewis' best performances were in his streak from Morrison thru Briggs. He took out some very big punchers in there and in emphatic fashion. He weighed between 241 and 251. Dempsey's best performance was Willard, with Fulton a close second. We know he was 180 for Willard. He weighed in at 188 for Fulton, unless he pulled another hidden hand weights routine. So, in the the end we are really talking about 50-60 pounds between the best versions of each.

As stated above his greatest performances were in the 240-250 range. That is irrefutable. Anything beyond that is speculation.

He went life and death with Brennan and Firpo before finishing them. Dempsey did face a great fighter. His name was Gene Tunney.

Lewis dismantled Tua. Not everyone gets KO'd. Tua barely got wobbled his whole effective career so no great sin to not put him out. Lewis lost focus a couple times, true, but avenged both defeats. I will also argue that he fought in an era which, top to bottom, contained the hardest hitters the division has seen. By the same token, we can ask if Flynn or Meehan or John Lester Johnson were better than Lewis.

I understand that Dempsey changed the sport. In fact, he was bigger than the sport. But that was as much a result of the time he fought (post Great War Roaring 20's, the inauguration of radio broadcast, a growing science of promotion) as his abilities.

Lewis' depth of resume, especially against giant hard hitting punchers, dwarfs Dempsey's…. and it's really not even close. Furthermore, his championship career was almost always spent at the front lines of the division, not digging up guys of dubious qualifications who fit a manufactured story line.

 

Im not disputing it..Demp would get his ass handed to him..period...The most logical thing ive ever heard you say!

 

I understand. You will pick the larger Lewis rather than Lewis from the Rudduck bout. Cool with that. Understand however, that the bigger Lewis is the one that got one punched by Rahman. Rahman is not great, he is a contender. Dempsey at his would have done him like Firpo.

I rank my heavyweights regardless of title defense etc. but, rather one who beats who. The same way I rank Robinson over all other welterweights when he only has four title defenses. I realized that title defenses are not the truest guide of greatness. I rank on ability when confronted with great test. I think Dempsey is a greater test for Lennox than the other way around.

Dempsey faced Sharkey and KO'ed Jack Sharkey (HOF, who beat Harry Willis) while weighing 194. In 1918 he was listed as weighing 200 for a fight with Tom Riley (212). Dempsey put him down 8 times in one round. Now, as far as that run you mention for Lewis. Are we saying that all those Morrison, Mercer, McCall, Akinwande, Golota, and Briggs also beat Dempsey? I think Smith, Willard, Miske, Brennan, Carpentier, Gibbons, and Firpo were just as good them. If this is Lennox's prime it is not as impressive as Dempsey's run to and through the title from Moran in 1918 to Firpo 1923. Five years. His between those two points he was 19-0-16KO's with 9 first round KO's (6 in a row).

He beat Williard like he was nothing. Willard was the Heavyweight Champion of the world. Dempsey banged a few more heads including Firpo and basically retired for 3 years. He was destroying everything moving. He was done. Willis might have beaten Dempsey b but, probably not during this reign of terror. Dempsey put down Firpo in 2 rounds. He outweighed Dempsey by about 20 pounds. Demps had him down 7 times. Taking a punch from a larger man and putting one down was no problem for Jack.

 

Thank you. From you, I take those all as compliment.