Your Top 15 middleweights of all time

greb
monzon
hagler
robinson
walker

hopkins
ketchel
langford
la motta
cerdan

burley
fitzsimmons
leonard
flowers
jones

 

I think its easier to pick a top 15 P4P than it is to make a list of the top 15 middleweights. So much depth in this division.

 

I think Gustav Scholz would have whooped Randy Turpin. That guy was up there with the best but never got the chance for a title until it was to late and in a wrong weight class.

 

i can't see it.he did have a good against charles humez but he's not in turpin's class.

 

Oh, yeah he is. He dominated the European scene of the time and never got close to beeing beaten. The loss to Humez in the first fight he had to drop to get a shot at Humez´ European title - which is more worth than one of today´s belts.
I don´t think Turpin would have solved the puzzle Scholz was in his prime. A tough southpaw with a great boxing brain, technical skill, stamina and counterpunching ability. Somebody who learned it the hard way. Turpin has a chance but I think out of ten fights Scholz would win seven.

 

did scholz have one of those inflated european records ??or did he benefit from home town decisions.i'm not that clued up hiom so its a genuine question.
pre robinson,turpin was kayoing anybody he could connect with and his style in his fights with robinson were only used in those 2 fights.

for a brief period,1950-51 he looked like he could rule the world middle-weight scene.

 

Yeah his record includes quite a few stiffs but also some decent fighters - most notably Harold Johnson, Charles Humez, Don Fullmer and Peter Mueller. From what I saw and read he never needed hometown decision because he was heads above his opponents.
For example Peter Mueller who went 1-1 with Joey Giardello, beat Randy Sandy and went the distance with Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio, giving them a good fight, and also fought Charles Humez, Dick Tiger and Laszlo Papp three times, was KOed twive by Scholz. Once in the first and once in the third round.

His problem was while an inferior fighter like Mueller could go to the states and get fights, nobody wanted to fight him there. I think moslty due to him beeing a southpaw. Additionally he earned very good money in Germany. He was not only a boxer but the symbol of the economic miracle in Germany. At his highest he was a huge star, starring in movies and recording "Schlager"-records.
So to he needed either a shot at the title or a big money fight in the states. Nobody would risk his title against a (in the states) practically unknown fighter who seems a very good fighter and is a southpaw.

Yep, Turpin looked great then but Scholz was never knocked out and never on the verge of getting KOed. And he was very hard to beat on points due to the combination of his southpaw stance, boxing brain, defence and stamina. I think Scholz would beat Turpin on points.

 

we'll have to agree to differ then.
i know mueller wasn't the most durable,scholtz obviously was.made of sterner stuff.i also know how hard it was for european fighters to get a world title shot in the states post-war.
one european fighter even had to "lend" his wife as a favour in exchange for a title shot.
robinson was different as he wasn't mob controlled

 

Cerdan was a great fighter also. Arcel said that America never saw Cerdan at his best because after the war he was really past his prime. He said that the Cerdan he saw in Europe would have beaten Hagler. Cerdan waslso one of the 4 or 5 five fighters a panel piked to be Hagler in an1983 boxing illustrated article after the great performance by Hagler against Sibson. Hagler's best fight at his peak I think.:rasta

 

Les Darcy may've merited an inclusion, I just forgot to mention him. I'll pass on Turpin, considering all the other men I purposefully passed on that I'd rate above him. Guys like Sands and Papp could've been considered, but in my eyes weren't proven enough to make that kind of list.

 

Turpin's problem was not lack of ability, it was an overabundance of the white sticky stuff.

 

1. Sam Langford
2. Marvin Hagler
3. Roy Jones
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Harry Greb
6. Ray Robinson
7. Ray Leonard
8. Mike McCallum
9. James Toney
10. Jorge Fernando Castro
11. Reggie Johnson
12. Michael Nunn
13. Merqui Sosa
14. Julian Jakcson
15. Sumbu Kalambay

Bob Fitzsimmons and Rodrigo Valdez should also be considerred

 

Monzon
Robinson
Greb
Ketchell
Hagler
Cerdan
Burley
Valdez
Walker
Fitzsimmons
Zale
Steele
Tiger
Giardello
Darcy / Sands

 

Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Robinson


Ketchel
Walker
Lamotta
Tiger
Hopkins
Zale
Cerdan
Giardello
Jones
Griffith
Steele/Valdez

 

Based on who's best

Jones
Robinson
Toney
Hopkins
Hagler
McCallum
Benn
Nunn
Burley
Monzon
Tiger
Kalambay
Holman Williams
Bomber Graham
Eubank

(Cant see Greb to comment)