Your Top 3 ATG by Weight Class.

Kongo is a world class striker , what would you have done if you were Velasquez ???...

 

There is nothing silly about this debate , this is a live debate , since you got yourself out of dodge there has been some really good back and forth points on this thread , and by and large its been a good debate .....................

Dude i was struggling to read your longer posts (not much of them though) because there was no lines between your paragraphs thats not random ...................

 

When Penn first came onto the scene , he was one of the founders of the LW division , at least in the UFC , back then there was no AT great list , well there would of been but not for LW's the division and the sport was too young , and still is very young , thats why i dont see many issues with modern fighters making audatious entry's in the AT great list , i listed Edgar and Fitch to back that up , the majority of my list contains fighters from Pride ..............

We have our opinions bro :good

 

Kongo's a good striker, not sure I'd call him world class though, never tried the waters of K1 and has had trouble with alot of not espeically great strikers in MMA(Mir, Browne, Buentello, Yvel, Herring etc), often as not he's shooting for those ugly takedowns vs another fairly one dimentional striker.

I'd take the same route as Cain and theres nothing wrong with doign so but you were the one claiming Cain has effortelessly risen though the ranks. In reality his striking was found wanting vs Kongo and he was rocked three times, thats not effortless even if he obviously won the match.

 

I guess Im just not a mass debater

Judging a guys ATG status by his fight with Check Kongo is beyond me too. But what Im saying was I was content to agree to disagree

 

Kongo is a very good striker, not world class IMO. And yet Nog is shite for getting dropped by Sylvia?!?

 

I do think Win has contradicted himself by saying the likes of Nog and Cro Cop aren't well-rounded enough (in their primes) to cut it in today's game yet saying Cains win over Brock is quality (even though he's about as well-rounded as Mark Coleman) and pushes him into an ATG ranking.

Unless I'm missing something in your point mate?

 

Nog in his prime actually a pretty good boxer by MMA standards, gave Sergei as good as he got and got the best of Herring.

 

Of course he would my be good enough by today's standards ;-)

 

When you break down the standards of MMA's striking , IMO Kongo would sit in a world class bracket , i didnt once mention K1 or proffessional boxing , or muay thai / kickboxing (world level) i was talking MMA terms .

Velasquez absolutley demolished the guy !!!!!!!!!

Thats plain and simple

It doesnt matter how he done it , and yes Kongo did rock him , but it didnt seem to effect him too much now did it ................

 

Yes but for me it's not enough ...I prefer to have a ATG list with not even 10 name on it instead of picking someone that don't deserve it yet !:good

 

In MMA terms he's top echelon in terms of his striking ability , Tim Sylvia is not and never has been and he picked Nogueira apart on the feet , look mate im not critisising Nogueira im just saying that his stand up and his boxing does not meet todays criteria , yes he was a little sharper and cripser back in the day with his boxing , and he was an all round better athlete then , but that was then , and that was against weaker opposition , less well rounded fighters , not all the time but in between his legit superfights in todays terms he was fighting bums in mismatches .

Mark Coleman is not on Brock Lesnar's level in terms of his wrestling ability , he has never been as strong as Lesnar (nobody in MMA holds the type of pure strength Lesnar does , he's freekish that way) or as quick and explosive , say what you want about Brock Lesnar , and like it or not the guy is a hand full for any fighter in the world because of his freakish size , strength and wrestling ability , as ive said its a bitter pill to swallow looking at an over sized steroid freek beating up proper well rounded martial artists just because of his size , but get used to it , because what he is good is effective , go and ask Frank Mir .

Flea i didnt say them boys in there primes would not cut it in todays game , that isnt what i said at all , what i said is that the level of competition is higher now , and is improving year by year rapidly , and fighters like that would have to improve there skill set in todays game to be the super stars they where back then , big ask :deal

 

Thanks for explaining your posts mate, I was unsure.

Brock does have size but is one dimensional. He needs to sort his skillset out to truly cut it IMO. I think you have double standards, of course you can say 'standards are higher now' but Brockfought Herring and Couture, both from previous eras, good win over Mir, but the two guys he fought that were bang-up-to-date 'modern' fighter both came close to decimating him in the first round (Cain did of course) and I think it's unfair to assume someone from a previous era, with an apparently limited skillset, couldn't do the job, and therefore have a win/legacy as impressive as Cains?

Sapp was a physical freak with serious stylistic downfalls as well :deal

 

Nonsense, Coleman was an NCAA champion and finished second at the world championships in 91 and 7th at the Barca games. Not quite as big as Lesnar(although over 250lbs at his biggest) but technically clearly superior, honiestly much of the wrestling we see from Brock is pretty ugly and I'd say a sure sign he depended on his size back then aswell.

Cains clearly a quality fighter and may well turn out to be an all time great but I'm supprized that anyone still buys into the "new breed" hype given the performances we've seen from Brock, Carwin, Duffee, Mir etc.

 

He was indeed , but he was 350 lb's of steroids and horse meat and had NO TALENT , Lesnar although it pains me , does have some !!! Lets not forget he beat Frank Mir near to death with no leverage on his shots at all .

And i think there is a few people who will be licking there wounds in the next 12 months on this forum when messurs Lesnar and Velasquez get more big wins under there belt , with regards to Lesnar , that includes myself i hate the guy , but he's effective and will be hard to beat for any top HW in the world ..............