Your Top 3 most underated/overrated fighters of the last 25 years?

I remember posts after the fight being around the line of "SO WHAT, he narrowly beat a very old Hopkins on his last legs" - the idea that Hopkins won wasn't really that accepted by people until the Pavlik fight, history revisionism.

Personally always felt Hopkins had the style to trouble Joe, that was proven right, but Joe adapted and sealed eight rounds in the fight. I struggle to give more than three to Hopkins, but gave him a round where neither fighter was that active also.

115-112 was the correct score in that fight.

Ali/Louis are definitely over-rated as H2H vs today fighters. We've had ongoing discussions around this and people just don't want to accept that boxing, like every other sport, has benefited from the changes in sport science and performance.

Also the size factor of boxers today and the power they pack, no one wants to take into account, which is why I call these two fighters over-rated.

There are some superb American boxers, unfortunately they don't exist above the 160lb limit. Chad Dawson is a waiting exposure in my view, his win against Adamek is credible, but considering Adamek is now fitting HW very comfortably and expects to be a 235-240lb heavyweight, somehow the idea of him being a little drained at 175 comes into the equation.

I actually feel Arreola is a little under-rated following the Klitschko performance, I actually think he's a better boxer following that, than what I did before the fight.

As for Calzaghe - Hopkins is one example of Calzaghe not getting true credit for the guy he beat. And as we said about Toney, at least Calzaghe was the undisputed MAN of his division, cleaned it out and often gave fights to dangerous guys like Mitchell and Reid on the back of them getting robbed against Ottke, I'll defend Calzaghe all day long because he beat some very solid fighters and a couple of greats, while doing things that no one else has done without some level of controversy.

 

I had it 114-113 to Calzaghe. And seeing as how many of press row had it 6-6 minus the KD (ESPN had it 7-5 to Bernard), the revisionist history thing doesnt hold up. It was a close fight, with many close rounds...Ive scored the fight many times over and have seen it anywhere from 115-112 to Joe to 115-112 to Bernard...but mostly to Calzaghe (and I never go against my initial scoring of a fight, judges get one shot at it, we should always do the same).

Also, many people on this very site came out and said Bernard won right after the fight happened...some even Calzaghe fans. I remember right after the fight, I left a long post on the fight (wish I could look it up, but alas its too far back) conceding and giving my score and why.

Again, its not revisionist history, its that it was a close fight...nothing more, nothing less.

The size thing doesnt factor in against Ali and Louis...so Im not really seeing it. Joe was 6'2 and strong as an ox. He also was a tremendous pure boxer...both offensively and defensively. His style would translate very well into today's game, especially considering with today's training methods, he could easily add another 20-25lbs without losing anything off of his style. Ali on the other hand was 6'3 and was lightning quick for his size, but also was incredibly skilled on both ends of the sport as well. The fighters he fought, also would translate well into todays game...hell, the sheer fact that Foreman was able to capture the title so many years after getting stopped by Ali proves this point.

I think there are PLENTY of fighters that fall into the category that they would get killed in today's sport...Ali and Louis are NOT two of those.

That is the ultimate example of hindsight being 20/20. So because Adamek is fighting at HW, that automatically means that he was drained at LHW? Only 2 divisions lower?

Does this mean that Hopkins was draining as a MW? Or that Pac was draining as a LW? Or what about when he was at 122?

What about Toney? You just said that him moving up is a black mark because its a lack of dedication...yet Adamek doing the same (from a higher original weight mind you) is a polar opposite?

Adamek moving up is great. It shows his power is REAL. He is a very good fighter. But adding weight and moving up is something that many, many fighters do throughout their careers...to knock the fighters that beat them back then just because they are now successful (against a thoroughly SHOT to hell Golota btw) at a higher class is just flat out wrong and unfair.

Dawson thrashed Adamek...it was great win and a great performance. But he has also beaten Johnson, Tarver twice and Harding. The other three arent world beaters (anymore) but they are solid wins vs good to very good fighters. And he also has been trying his ass off to make bigger fights.

He is not overrated...and even if he was slightly, to lump him in as an overrated american boxer is purely a xenophobic outlook. There are highly overrated fighters from every country. The ones in the US get more publicity because they are consistantly on the biggest stage imaginable and therefore get more media coverage, earlier.

There are a ton of great young american fighters...as well as some great old ones. Just as there are some great young non-americans...and old as well. It runs the gammut...but shows a bias to point out just one side of it.

Calzaghe is one of my 10 all time favorite fighters (number 6 currently LOL)...Ive been a fan since he beat Eubank. He has a much greater resume then he gets credit for...but also spent too much time in relative obscurity due to the wishes of his shite promoter Frank Warren...which he was all too happy to oblige to. If he (or more accurately Frank) allowed him to take more risks in his career, I believe he would be looked at in a much more favorable light. But he chose not to. I think he had the ability to be a top 50 ATG, but chose instead comfortability and to stay undefeated (again I blame Warren more than I do Joe). Would he have some losses if he had taken more risks? Yeah, probably...but he also would get more mainstream respect as well.

And again, I love the guy!

:good

 

I'll answer just one point there.

Adamek doesn't look like a bloated blimp at HW like Toney does, yes, it's a little revisionist and I don't discredit Dawson for the win, but I still see gaping flaws in his style where sooner rather than later, he'll be punished for.

ps, I'm an American. I think the job we do hyping American fighters is problematic and xenophobic - personally I think the best talent and most importantly, the intelligent talent is coming from Europe these days.

Pacquaio moved up through the weights for money and the opportunities against the likes of ODLH, it was a measured approach.

 

I wasnt saying that Adamek moved up due to lack of dedication, Im saying that just because he moved up, doesnt mean he was necessarily drained. He got outboxed...and was also getting outboxed at CW when his power saved him vs Cunningham. He is a very good fighter, like I said, but if anyone between he and Dawson are overrated, its Adamek (I dont think he is, but he is moreso than Dawson...who is supremely talented and has outclassed everyone he has faced outside of Johnson, who he is fighting again).

As for the American media giving the biggest lift to American fighters, it is exactly the same overseas (Setanta's coverage of Jones - Calzaghe was the worst job of announcing/cheerleading I have ever seen...a friend of mine thinks Joe shits sunshine and his description was "sickeningly biased")...and it makes sense. They follow what is in front of them. When overseas fighters come here, and fight here exclusively, they get that same backing. Think about Manny Pac now!!! Or how about Linares in Japan, where he was a borderline rockstar!

Like it or not, this IS the big stage when it comes to media coverage and money (therefore backing of promoters). So if they are home fighters...be it home town or they now make the US their home...they will get the bigger piece of the media pie. Its not necessarily a bias, it just makes sense.

Think about it. I am from Boston. We LOVE our teams. Every time I turn on our local radio stations, tv stations or take a look at a paper, its dominated by local teams...local players and local coverage. You dont have a special section where a reporter from Boston travels to St. Louis on a regular basis to cover the Cardinals. Same with the American boxing media. If Calzaghe had crossed the pond earlier and taken on fighters on HBO or Showtime...they would have given him more publicity. Had he fought fighters who were being covered by these stations rather than ones on Setanta, he would have had more pub in these places...instead he got more pub over there...on Setanta and stations of its ilk.

Would it be great to have one media body covering the entire boxing world? Yeah...HELL YEAH! But its not feasible. Much like it would be great to have one sanctioning body...or one title per division...but it aint happening. This doesnt constitute a bias in a sense of geographic area...it constitutes a bias in a sense of they cover what they see.

Like I said, since coming over and fighting in the US, the Klits, Pac, Calzaghe, John, Froch, etc...all have gotten their fair share of pub over here. The earlier they do it, the earlier it starts...look at Vic Darchinyan.

:good

 

Underrated

Fenech
Kalambay
Jung Koo Chang

 

Very good picks.

Id also like to add Micheal Nunn, Steve Collins and Chris Eubank to the three that I already posted.

 

Underrated- Michael spinks, chicanito hernandez, and winky wright.

Overrated- Arturo gatti, Lennox lewis, and Oscar de la hoya.

These choices are all pretty much self explanatory to any die hard fan.

 

No way in hell is whitaker overrated by any means. UNDERRATED IF ANYTHING.

 

I totally agree

 

Underrated? :nut You know that he is worshiped as a god here?

 

Take up golf.

Barrera is credited as being a versatile fighter. He out slugs Erik Morales, and then outboxes Prince Naseem Hamed. He proved it.

Barrera is credited as beating great fighters in there prime. Naseem Hamed was at his peak, he just looked so bad against Barrera because he was taking a huge step up in class whereas Barrera had been fighting elite level for years. Don't talk ****. Hamed was getting tagged throughout his entire career, unless he was fighting complete cans. Both Hamed and Morales were undefeated and prime when Barrera beat them.

Barrera is credited as defying the odds and making great comebacks. He lost to Junior Jones, and then arguably beat Erik Morales despite being a 4-1 underdog. He took that defeat, which many felt was suspect, and then beat Naseem Hamed decisively, despite being a 4-1 underdog again. As if that wasn't enough to prove my point, he takes a licking against one of the greatest fighters of all time that has been moving up to Welterweight and knocking guys out, but comes back to win the trilogy against Morales, who was P4P rated and hadn't lost since 2002...in his only loss...to Barrera.

Barrera is credited as having a great resume by contemporary standards. He beat Hamed, undefeated and prime (despite your ****), and then Morales twice. They both factor in to elite victories, whereas he has a host of good wins to back it up. Kennedy Mckinney, Johnny Tapia, Enrique Sanchez, Kevin Kelley, Rocky Juarez, Robbie Peden, Paulie Ayala, Eddie Cook. Some were past prime, but all of them former world champions, with the exception of Juarez.

His skill set speaks for itself. Three-weight world champion. Went 43-0 before tasting defeat. His resume spanning 20 years is outstanding, and his greatest ever victories came against prime, undefeated opposition both rated in the P4P top 10 at the time. I've heard some silly **** during my time at ESB, but saying Marco Antonio Barrera is overrated because he took defeats just about tops the list. He avenged his defeats more often than not. As I say, take up golf mate.

 

Underrated - Michael Spinks, Johnny Tapia, Humberto Gonzalez
Overrated - Juan Manuel Marquez, Ricardo Lopez, Tito Trinidad

 

exactly....the ONLY reason i say he gets overrated.....say anyone out here is better and and you prolly wont get a legitimate answer they just go off on tangents and start spouting insults.

 

To me this list for underrated far exceeds overrated i was comfortable with picking 3 overrated but have a long list for Underrated
Underarated
Holyfield -Unbeatable at cruiser and an ATG
at Heavy in an era of big Heavys many people
forget that.

FInito Lopez - The most perfefct fighter ive seen
should be considered an elite ATG

Tapia- Nobody mentions him anymore this kid was
very talented and i think deserved all the fights against
Paulie ayala

Fenech- this guy was a dynamo at Bt,JF,F, and even at JL
he didnt get noticed internationally until he was passed his
prime

Chavez - Obviously hes not underrated to Mexican fans but seems
to be on ESB this guy is one of the greatest fighters in the History
of Boxing but yet most ESB posters seem to look at him as just
some Very good fighter who was nothing spectacular.:verysad

Overrated
Lewis- I think Lennox is an atg but gets too much praise for some one whos was Knocked out by Mccall and Rahman when he was in his prime.HEs usually ranked ahead of Holyfield and Tyson why?? They were both past it when he fought them. Especially Tyson. Holyfield almost pulled it out in the second fight and he was already passed it those guys should be above Lewis. To me his average(at best) chin will always be held against him.

Norris-Great skills had it all and i liked him but he was vulnerable against any decent puncher to me.

Mcguigan- Exciting fighter and had some good wins. But they were against an oLd Pedroza,uninspired Laporte,Underachieving Bernard Taylor. He also got stopped by Stevie Cruz when he was still young. Hes ducked Azumah,I also think hes the least deserving of all the fighters inducted in the IBHOF

 

I forgot about Mark "Too Sharp" Johnson this kid had everyting blinding speed,one punch power and he could out box you or out slug you . This kid should be a 1st ballot hall of famer. I had the privelage of watching him many times at ther Forum in Ingelwood. He had to fight out here on the west coast cause there were more quality little guys out here.