Your Top 5 Greatest Jr. Welterweight Of All Time List?

Cervantes is an absolute non-negotiable top 5 and has to be at least top 3 in my opinion. He actually has a very good argument to be no. 1 as well. @roughdiamond has already explained Cervantes' combination of longevity/dominance and resumé so I don't need to repeat that, but Kid Pambelé is pretty much to the modern junior welterweights what Flash Elorde was to the super featherweights/jnr lightweights - he legitimised his junior weight class for the modern era.

Barney Ross is arguably the greatest overall fighter to regularly compete at 140 and I'd probably have him top 5 too but not that near the top spot, unlike Cervantes. His two wins over Tony Canzoneri might be the best pair wins in the division's history... but they're effectively double counted as both Ross and Canzoneri weighed inside the lightweight limit in both fights and they were fighting for the lightweight title - the major world title in comparison with the jnr welterweight's minor title status - so it's debatable how much value those wins hold at this weight. It's a little like SRL picking up the light-heavy strap as well as the super middleweight titles in one fight from Donny Lalonde while weighing well inside the supermiddle limit. Of course, Canzoneri was an all-time great whereas Lalonde...wasn't. But you get the idea. Canzoneri was also arguably unlucky not to get the nod as well in at least one of those fights too. Once you look past the Canzoneri fights, Ross's record at 140 is decent, but his opposition doesn't stand out particularly.

Chavez and Pryor occupy a similar space at the weight. Both dominant champs who had one hugely significant scalp at the weight - Chavez over Taylor and Pryor over Arguello. They both have a good argument for no. 1 but are battling it out with Cervantes for that honour in my view. Those are my top 3. Which order I have them depends on the day, to be honest.

Niccolino Locche has a win over Cervantes and was outstanding in the late 60s. He's in contention for a top 5 spot. Tszyu's best win now doesn't look that great and his two losses, particularly the one to Vince Phillips, overshadow some of his best work, but he was a rare undisputed champion and deserves a top 10 spot, for sure. Top 5? Not quite.

@George Crowcroft's shout of Carlos Ortiz is a very good one. Wins over Duilio Loi and Kenny Lane are better than they might sound and he had a draw with Locche a couple of years before the Argentine picked up the title. Of course, he would go on to greater things at lightweight, but I think I'd sneak him into the top 5 (today, at least) over a couple of equally deserving fighters in Locche and Berg.

Anyway, here's my top 5:

5. Carlos Ortiz
4. Barney Ross
3. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Aaron Pryor
1. Antonio Cervantes

Just outside:
-Niccolino Locche
-Jack Kid Berg
-Kostya Tszyu

 

Top post.

 

Locche gets a bad rep. Lots of accusations of being protected, soft, too negative and so on. Nothing could be further from the truth. Locche's résumé is extremely impressive. Of my original top ten, Locche fought four of them, going 3-1-1. The loss coming at the end of his career to Cervantes, and the draw being against a prime Carlos Ortiz. He also has a draw with all-time great Ismael Laguna, and I thought he deserved a win in that one. Locche also went eight years undefeated before losing to Fraiser - a stylistic nightmare and an extremely impressive fighter in his own right.

His résumé has lots of quality. He beat two very good champions whose careers should be synonymous, in Lopopolo and Fuji; an amount of contenders he beat is extremely impressive, fighters like LC Morgan, Alfredo Urbina, Adolph Pruitt, and Domingo Barrera, etc; he also beat two JWW greats - both probably as good, one if not better, than someone like Kostya Tzysu - in Eddie Perkins and Carlos Hernandez. And I don't buy Cervantes went from a nobody to an all-time great in less than a year and a half. He was a beast in the Locche rematch, the first Fraiser fight, and indeed, the first Locche fight.

As for being negative/soft, watch him vs Hernandez or Fuji and tell me he was a negative, unengaging fighter. He stood in the pocket and countered Fuji silly, making a freakish powerhouse look like a harmless little girl. A powerhouse like Hernandez soon thought twice after tasting what Locche had when he retaliated after being knocked down. He fought his heart out when he tore ligaments/tendons (can't remember which) against Barrera. He still rocked him multiple times late and adapted to his southpaw style. He showed massive heart to finish that while literally only being able to use one arm.


As for Pryor, it simply comes down to him not having enough top wins to go over Chavez. He doesn't have the same longevity of record there, and his overall level of competition was lower. Arguello is an awesome win, but it's his only one. Chavez's resume isn't great, and his placement primarily rests on a long dominant stretch, but his win over Taylor is substantial. I'd have Pryor top ten, but not top five. Chavez could feasibly be interchanged with Perkins, Napoles or Hernandez, as well. Those three, Chavez and Pryor are all on a similar level at the weight - achievement wise - IMO. Napoles would beat them all up, though.

 

What would you give to see Chavez and Ross fight?
Personally I think that either of them beats Locche.

 

1. Aaron Pryor 2. Wilfred Benitez 3. Antonio Cervantes 4. Niccolino Loche 5. Julio Cesar Chavez

 

Great list

Pryor was a drug cheat who wouldnt have survived 10 rds with JCC, CO or prime Cervantes

 

My shot at a top fifteen:

#15. Meldrick Taylor
#14. Wilfred Benitez
#13. Kostya Tzysu
#12. Duilio Loi
#11. Billy Petrolle
#10. Carlos Hernandez
#09. Jack Kid Berg
#08. Jose Napoles
#07. Aaron Pryor
#06. Eddie Perkins
#05. Julio Cesar Chavez
#04. Carlos Ortiz
#03. Antonio Cervantes
#02. Nicolino Locche
#01. Barney Ross

Gathering the names for 1-14 is easy, but finding a fifteenth name which didn't feel out of place was difficult. I'm not sold on Mel, but he seems like he belongs. So he'll have to do.

 

Good list historically. I have a feeling that 13,14 and 15 at their best beat most in the top five. That's what's so great about 140. So many truly great fighters.

 

Honestly I hate the junior welterweight spot.

Go to lightweight a real division. It's 5lbs FFS.

Scrap all these nonsense weight classes.

Great fighters are there yes but like I said it's 5lbs and it ruins some great opportunities.

I am a big fan of a lot of JWW guys mind you.

 

I get the sentiment but as this thread shows, some of them have been around long enough now that they have real history at least.

 

A real history that could have meant more to the lightweight division for our money.

 

I don't think Taylor or Tzysu beat anyone in the top five.