Your Top 5 Greatest Jr. Welterweight Of All Time List?

1. Pryor/Chavez/Cervantes all have a case
4. Tszyu
5. Ross

Locche, Perkins can be in there too.

 

I know Ortiz was a bad decision, it's a big reason why I have Ortiz so high. Having seem the Laguna fight - or most of it - I think Locche was actually worse off with the draw. A win would've been completely acceptable there. I can certainly believe Pruitt felt hard done by, and the cards were far too wide for that one. As for Perkins, I've read all sorts regarding that decision. From both it was one sided in Perkins favour, to a shut out in Locche's. My take is a more practical one, in that it was likely a very close fight and Locche won it. With no footage, what can you do? Ignore it? Definitely not.

See, this is where I don't get people's problems with Locche. So what he stayed in Argentina? It's his home country, if he wants to stay there, let him. No-one winges when Americans never leave America. I think it's fine when Thai fighters never leave Thailand. The only issue is when they're not getting big fights, but Locche was still able to get them. He had a defensive style which worked well under his ruleset. That's like degrading Jack Johnson because he grappled too much.

 

Berg!

 

Yes, he’d be in the mix too. I’m sure there’s others that slipped my mind.

 

First of all, Hector Thompson is one of the strongest lightweights and junior welterweights of all-time. I'd wager he was every bit as strong as Tzysu, so I wouldn't go throwing around phrases "never fought anyone remotely as strong as Tzysu". Regardless, even if Cervantes might not have ever fought anyone as strong as Tzysu, but you don't need to be stronger to keep someone off when you can light them up at every opportunity by being longer, faster, and more accurate.

I know Tzysu doesn't attack frantically like Pryor, but if anything, that's just worse against someone like Cervantes. Gives him more time to figure you out. Tzysu had a good jab, but it wasn't as good as Cervantes', and he was very open to a right hand. He enjoyed cutting the ring off on people when they didn't set, but Cervantes would fire right back.

Yeah, no **** I'm quick to excuse losses due to inexperience. How many Hispanic fighters have early career losses? Even Carlos Monzon lost to people he'd have never come close to losing in his prime. Kostya Tzysu had been a champion for years, and had 270 amateur fights. He lost fair and square to Vince Phillips, a man who couldn't beat Romallis Ellis. There's a lot of shame in losing to Phillips, especially if you want to be on the same level as Cervantes/Chavez/Ortiz, etc

 

Well you sure know a lot for someone that has zero actual experience with the sport. Hector Thompson was nowhere near as strong as Tzysu. Again, Vince Phillps had major drug issues which contributed to his spotty record. He was a very good fighter when his mind was right and if you are going to excuse Cervantes losses when he was inexperienced I can easily do the same for Phillips who I saw crush people live at the US nationals back in the 80's before your dumb ass was even born. Maybe you should put down the history books and put the gloves on and truly learn the sport before you even try to educate me. I have seen you call very good fighter's bums on the forum before which is a little much for a guy that doesn't even fight.

 

It's cute you think my age makes me less intelligent than you. As for having "zero actual experience" in the sport, I have been boxing competitively for years now and train every weekday at Joe Galleghar's academy. I have more actual experience than the majority of the forum.

Don't tell me what Hector Thompson was or wasn't when you don't even know who he is.

Oh what, did these major drug problems happen to disappear in the five months between losing to Ellis and beating Kostya Tzysu? It seems you've misunderstood what I've said. Maybe you've took a few to many upstairs. I never said Phillips was ****, or a bum. I said Tzysu lost to him in his prime. A prime Cervantes would never lose to someone on that level, no matter what level you perceive Phillips to be, it's a damn sight lower than Benitez or Locche, and that's what it took to beat a prime Cervantes.

So you can use Phillips' inexperience as a excuse for his losses, but you saw him fight as a high level amateur at least five years before his first loss? Come again? You're not making sense again, mate.

It seems you get very defensive when somebody calls a fighter a bum. Loosen up. If I call Derrick Chisora a bum, it's relative. He's a bum compared to Vitali Klitschko, but he's a warlord compared to you.

 

I'm beyond the point of changing my lists now, they are what they are. Here's my LWW

Julio Cesar Chavez
Carlos Ortiz
Nicolino Locche
Duilio Loi
Eddie Perkins

Surprised myself seeing I'd put Perkins above Cervantes and Zoo, but there we have it.

I'm sure when I spent hours/days compiling my list I had my reasons.

 

You are full of ****. I remember a conversation with you a couple of years ago where you said you weren't a fighter. And yes I do get upset when a non fighter calls a fighter a bum. Only a **** talking non fighter would do that. I have always gotten along with you for the most part on this forum but sometimes you say some pretty stupid ****. My whole point in this thread was that there is not much between the top 15 or so fighters. On any given day I could see most of them beating each other and Tzysu vs Cervantes is no different. Of course Cervantes is rightfully thought higher of but calling Tzysu anything less than a very live underdog is just crazy. And yes I know who Thompson was. Again, I actually was alive when he fought.

 

You're misremembering, because there hasn't been a point over a decade where I haven't been a fighter. I started kickboxing at six, and swapped for boxing at thirteen, had my first fight at fourteen and started training full time recently. The only time I'd have said I wasn't fighting was during the first lockdown.

I always got on with you as well, but you're not the only one who says stupid ****, and you're a lot more touchy than most. Lighten up, there's no reason to care about which fighter gets called what. Do you think they're offended by what's said on a forum?

There's hundreds of examples of fighters calling other fighters bums

And my point was that I disagreed... have you bee following this thread closely? Making Cervantes a prohibitive favourite over Tzysu is not crazy whatsoever.

Oh, so it's stupidity and not ignorance then. Pity.

 

Your a fighter too? And your favourite boxer is Ezzard Charles (my no1 favourite fighter of all time) hell yeah