Your unpopular boxing opinions

Not even unpopular, just blatantly wrong.

 

Anyone who justifies Larry Holmes' title defenses has a cognitive disorder or is related to the Holmes family. And Carl Williams beat him clean and clear. Neither of these should be unpopular, but there is a Holmes contingent on here that strike me as "Flat Earthers" when it comes to these things.

 

Was he? Damn it.
Now im ashamed of my heritage.

 

Ruddock and Bruno were “overlap” guys.

Dokes, Smith, and Thomas were trash in the 90s and would get slaughtered in any era.

The other “overlap” guys who had something left in the 90s were Tyson, Holmes, Tucker, Witherspoon, and Tubbs.

 

Interesting. I'm the biggest Holmes fan here and every time I've watched that fight I had it for Holy at least by two and most three points. Larry faded some from the middle rounds on imo.

No offense meant, just a difference of opinion.

 

Holyfield pressed the action and Holmes stood in the corner a lot, but he nailed Holyfield with a lot of right hand counters, and I think he landed more cleanly almost throughout the fight.

 

I wouldn’t call it unpopular, except as you alluded to, on here. I had Witherspoon beating him but let’s not quibble on why he’s over-rated

 

I had Larry handily winning after 7 rounds and was quite impressed with his showing against near-peak Holy.

 

I used to think Frazier was better than both until recently. Now I've changed my mind. From watching their fights and seeing their skills, it seems Dempsey & Marciano had more in their arsenal (IMO). Compare their defense highlights & see for yourself.

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Despite there being sounder, more 'technically correct' fighters, the likes of prime Ali and RJJ would have many of your favourite ATG fighters in their weight classes swinging and missing, whilst they toyed with them, opening up with combinations from angles that they couldn't adjust to in time to counter.

Similarly, the accusations of Ali and RJJ having no fundamentals or technique is asinine. These guys clearly knew the rulebook, incorporated what they wanted to and then defied the dogma of orthodoxy, allowing their superior natural talents to do unorthodox things that their opponents weren't trained to do. We often go down rabbit holes and do pages of pages of X boxer didn't use fundamentals and the name of the game is to hit and not be hit - boxing is a war, it's a martial art. Everyone gets hit. Ali, RJJ, SRR, SRL, Pep, Pete, Benitez, Canzoneri, Camacho, PBF - they all broke the rules somewhat - simply because they could. Sometimes, hitting an opponent with stuff that you're not supposed to, like a lead right hand, or lead left hooks, without using the jab not only exhibits your speed and throws them off, it can also be psychological one-upping and we often undervalue the mental aspects of match ups.

SRL demonstrated better consistent defence than SRR not because of SRR being wholly defensively lacking, but moreso because SRL was a more evenly balanced fighter. SRR often took risks defensively to inflict maximum damage on the inside/to get leverage on his punches.

Boxers like Fitz and Langford are God-given blessed with talent and power. They translate into any era and with training and adjustment to the ruleset knock out most of your favourite fighters.

Duran's lack of out of ring physical and mental discipline are the main reasons why he didn't end up being viewed as the GOAT. Two wins over Leonard, Benitez, Hearns and a win/closer fight with Hagler, plus the win over Barkley and I would have suggested that he surpassed SRR.

SRL's H2H ability is arguably top 3 - 5 p4p.

RJJ's arguably THE top fighter H2H from 160 - 175 lbs one night only for all the chips.

When doing hypothetical H2Hs, it has to be 15 Rounds and you have to hypothesise that they're born in the same era, with the same access to training, nutrition and opportunities. Therefore, a Fitz, Langford, Charles, Moore etc. would have the same natural talents but benefits of the access that a Spinks had.

Mike Tyson was such a special fighter in his prime, literally, only several fighters survive the onslaught and get a chance to test his intangibles.

Rocco's defence is awkward as hell, but highly accomplished and somewhat 'cute' - don't mistake his crude appearance and brutish power punching for a guy who doesn't understand the game.

Most fans are armchair fans and haven't stepped into the ring or studied enough to actually know what they are seeing in a fight. They don't understand the psychology of fighting, the nuances of styles and a fighter's background, personality and psychological make up and how that expresses itself in a fighter's style and intangibles. Often, the fight fan is unable to describe what is happening in the ring because they don't know how to analyse the skills on display, don't have the ability to describe what they are seeing and cannot read when a fighter deliberately throws short and slow to lull the opponent into misreading their timing, so they can set up a power shot that catches them by surprise. The worst thing is these are the fans that are so vocal about how wrong you are and repeat long disproven rubbish that you can negate with actual film footage.

PBF has the greatest and most consistent defence of the ATG defensive masters on film as he displayed all facets. Yet, I find Duran's defence in the heat of battle at close range coming forwards, far more impressive than the defence shown at mid-range and on the perimeter of danger. That said, PBF was a bloody exciting fighter at 130lbs and would likely beat anyone that's competed there in the right circumstances.

 

Ellis deserved the decision over Patterson.

 

Mate that's a HOF post, great stuff. I enjoyed reading that. Brilliant!

 

Saying Ali lacked fundamentals is sort of like saying Bruce Lee lacked karate fundamentals

 

Well considering Lee’s reputation as a fighter is virtually baseless fraudulence…

 

Larry Holmes should have become a two-time world champion (or titleist) at age 42.

He beat Ray Mercer, who was the WBO champ, but Ray was stripped of that title for fighting Larry rather than Michael Moorer.