Your Unshakeable Boxing Opinions

Yeah, the biggest difference between Fury and those guys lies in his superior skills and understanding of how to control range and fight from distance. If Fury has been born 70 years prior, he probably would have been a much weaker fighter. Not primarily because he’d be physically diminished but rather because he wouldn’t have been able to study and incorporate the technique and strategies of guys like Ali and Wlad.

 

No comparison whatsoever.

 

Maybe but I doubt it. Maybe I’m generalziing but as far as I can tell, big heavies (6’3/220+ types) didn’t really start putting the same emphasis on fighting to control range until Ali showed how it’s done. Instead, too many basically relied on their brute strength and power advantages more so than distance fighting.

 

I have to agree with you here. This is quite correct.

To a large extent all fighters are a creature of their environment.

 

This 100%. My favourite HW, Sanders, wasted his prime away fighting bums in the main, once or twice a year, because his promoters did not have the clout to get him the big names. He was practically begging to fight Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and even Holmes iirc but there was no wind behind him. On the other hand a fighter with connections and a sense of momentum not only has a better career but is probably also a much better fighter for it.

 

Strength training is code for strength training (something I have done now for 30+ years.) It is a science that has developed by leaps and bounds (and sometimes doubled back on itself) over the decades. It is also something that was largely shunned by trainers well into the 1970's. This notion that all you have to do is take a few injections and are suddenly a giant is the stuff of simps. Either with or without the juice, you need a lot of hard and properly done work. And you don't need the juice to get significant results.

 

I think Ali was an excellent model in that he showed relatively large heavyweights (and maybe more importantly, their trainers) new ideas about how to systematically use footwork, lateral movement, and backfoot fighting to fully exploit their size and reach advantages. Important innovations with his jab too (as far as big men are concerned), in that he showed the value of jabbing more frequently, jabbing on the move, and working in more double and triple jabs. I would have to rewatch some Willard fights (uggh) but I don’t recall him using footwork and frequent jabbing as consistently and methodically as a lot of the relatively big post-Ali heavies. I think it’s most apparent in some of the quicker 80s heavies (like Holmes, Carl Williams, Tubbs, etc.) but also in guys like Lewis, Wladimir, and even Vitali. Might be a reach on my part but that’s my pet theory.

 

Sure, with some exceptions. But which of your boxing opinions have been shaken in the past 5 years?

 

The percentage of men >= 6'4" is some factors higher today than it was in the 50s and before. Do we really have to debate that? The distribution shifted to the right with a higher avarage height for men.

Performance enhancing drugs is alot of drug types. I think youre referring to strictly anabolic drugs here?

The calculations I did are for height, not for weight! Do you really think PEDs made men taller, when they were growing to the age of 18?
You see there is no coherence? You agree that tall men can carry more functional weight?

No boy in the US grows to 6'4" under the age of 18 with PEDs. It has nothing to do with it.
What you might check is if the taller boxers today have higher BMIs with same body fat %. But I suspect you can make a true case for anabolic PEDs here, because more SHWs in general increases the probability as well to find SHWs with that certain genetics....

Its the number of men in the age for boxing in the US beeing >= 6'4". The percentage of men in the age of boxing is estimated by the number of the US population, which was 152M in 1950 and 320M in 2017.

I think that more young black fighters got the chance to box after the 70s, but dunno about the % of men in boxing in the different eras.

 

Anyone mention Primo yet?

 

Huge, with average skills at best.

 

Ali is clearly the best HW of all time, and it's not all that close

Whitaker would've beaten Mayweather in a prime for prime fight

Johnson, with the proper training and adjustment period, could've done well in any era

 

In the US probably not - but what has that got to do with anything? Shouldn't we be looking at the WHOLE picture?

Since the 50s many more countries have taken up pro boxing, resulting in a worldwide talent pool much larger than 50-60 years ago. Shouldn't really surprise anyone, that there are more 6'4"+ boxers today than before… PEDs or no PEDs! Wouldn't it be strange, if this was not the case?

 

You don’t need the juice but everyone is better on it. Boxers are more effective when they juice. This is why it is illegal and also why so many fighters test positive nowadays. Professional sports are absolutely dog eat dog ruthless. No wonder so many feel they can’t afford not to juice.

 

'Initially interesting thread derailed by boring heavyweight deviation' shock!