Youtube: Which Fighters Has It Been Kind To, & Vice Versa?

Your point? A shoulder dislocation is a shoulder dislocation. It happens.

What then of the 4th matchup, where Pep was ahead on the cards after 9 and then decided to call it quits, just because he'd had enough?

 

Yep, Pep had enough of Sandy Saddler gouging and thumbing his eye off. Willie Pep's eye was so severeley detatched from saddlers "tactics" he would have really risked ruining his permanant vision. Yep that Saddler was a rough one. Too bad because Pep was giving him a boxing lesson on the cards through 9.

Pep replied after the 4th fight "what are you crazy, you want me to fight sandy saddler with one eye"?? LOL


I dont blame the man, I sure as hell would not want to tangle the last 7 rounds with sandy saddler with one eye.

 

Yep they hurt like a mother****er

 

Sandy gets all the credit in the world for 3 victories over Pep, but you have to look at what happened in each fight. The 3rd and 4th fights were very controversial endings. Saddler's most impressive win is 1st fight, Pep had no idea how good saddler was and saddler blasted him away like he was his daddy.


Its too bad thats all we talk about our the filmed 3rd and 4th fights.......most historians consider the 1st and 2nd pep saddler fights classics, I wish they were on film

 

I also hate when it comes to talking about Pep people only bring up saddler and angott. The man had 250 other fights! including some very good competition. Why dont we talk about the way Willie Pep reigned for a decade as featherweight champion and convinsingly beat the Ring Magazine # 1 contender in his weight classes 9 years in a row!! how many champions do that? we see alot of ducking going on, pep ducked no one.

 

Yea , they are supposedly classics the first 2, and great performances from either man at what they both did best respectively

 

Reminds me of that recent Southpark episodes where Cartman hides out-lawed cats in his attic.

 

Great thread topic! A huge beneficiary of widely available footage, as I see it, is Primo Carnera. For decades, scribes have been parroting Paul Gallico's denigration of Carnera's skills without studying films of him in competition. Other tall and long armed boxers failed to make optimum use of their height and reach. Buddy Baer and Abe Simon are superheavyweight contemporaries of his who are guilty of this. Primo is now revealed to have had a pesky jab, something which allowed him to score from long range without being hit in return. Against Max Baer, we see him winning the rounds in which he kept his feet, despite having sustained a broken ankle in round one (which sent him to the hospital afterwards). If Carnera's ankle had not been fractured, he may well have decisioned his third challenger, as that match was being scored on the rounds system.

Although not fast, neither was Primo a clutz tripping over his own huge feet. If he gets into the IBHOF, it will be in large part due to the wide exposure youtube is providing. He was the most active heavyweight champion between 1910 and 1938, the only one to defend that championship more than twice in a single year, and not against token opposition which took dives either. Primo is the only undisputed heavyweight champion between Marvin Hart and Leon Spinks who has not been enshrined in the IBHOF. Like it or not, the voters will need to stop letting his detractors do their thinking for them, and judge his footage and record for themselves. According to the standards they have set, Carnera can no longer be justifiably excluded from their ranks.

In defending his light heavyweight championship against peaking challengers as widely disparate as the peak Mickey Walker, and peaking, longer armed Jimmy Braddock, we can see Tommy Loughran display his incredible boxing skill, with impeccable footwork and timing. Walker would go on to feast on heavyweight contenders, while Braddock upset Baer for the big prize. But neither could handle Tommy. The Cinderella Man closed out his career with another inspiring victory over Tommy Farr, but while a good win, it's hardly HOF material.

Finally, we can all see what George Foreman meant when gushing effusive praise about Jerry Quarry. For too many years, it seemed that the only performance of Jerry's we'd ever view would be of his dismal showing in the Ali rematch. Now, his great wins have been made available to all. He was much more than a "Great White Hope." The Bellflower Belter was also a great contender, who could more than hold his own with anybody who wasn't Ali in his prime. Patterson, Mathis, Mac Foster, Spencer, Lyle, and Shavers are a pretty good assortment of heads for any heavyweight's trophy plaques. One punch knockout power? He destroyed Jack Bodell with a single counter right. Resilient? Check him coming back from a hellacious punch and knockdown against Joe Alexander, to wipe out the upstart in the following round.


As for who doesn't fare well, take a look at Braddock/Baer. It's somewhat ironic that Braddock gets a movie made about his career just as footage demonstrating his limitations in the ring becomes widely seen. How does Max Baer lose to somebody who Loughran makes look like an amateur? This outcome might have made for a dramatic upset and inspiring story, but the case can be made that neither was the best heavyweight in the world at the time. (It wasn't Carnera's fault that Shaaf chose to get out of his hospital bed to compete with the flu. The fact is that Primo legitimately defeated Shaaf, Sharkey, Uzcudun and Loughran in four consecutive bouts. He may not have been an ATG. But unlike Baer and Braddock, Carnera was a highly credible heavyweight champion who repelled the challenges of two very worthy contenders, who had both defeated his eventual successor.)

Having an opportunity to watch Joe Gans and Benny Leonard doesn't hurt their reputations in the least.

Nicolino Locche has benefited tremendously, exhibiting his defensive wizardry. He's short, stoop shouldered, has the appearance of a middle aged man...and then the bell rings, and he's toying with Kid Pambele!

Earlier today, I re-watched Charley Burley/Oakland Billy Smith II. Just like that, Burley is 28 years old again, and more than mere reputation, but a moving image.

How effective can somebody be with little more than movement and a great jab? Have a look at Pastrano/Johnson and Griffith/Archer II, in addition to Loughran.


Jack Dempsey is not shown to good effect on youtube. Movie film run through a projector is necessary to reveal the suble nuances of his brutal talent. This superiority of movie film to youtube imagery can also be applied to most footage pre-dating the 1920s. Like Dempsey, Jack Johnson gets shortchanged by inferior youtube reproduction.

 

Q, can you tell us what fights of Pep's you've seen in his prime?

I have seen the Walton fight which has extra slow motion and it's hard to make much out of it.

You've recently told me a fight with McAllister is available. I know the third fight is available but that was post-crash Pep. So which McAllister fight is available which features prime Pep, the first or the second?

Which other fights of Pep's are available in his prime? You said there's about 3 or 4 in another thread.

I must say, from the footage I've seen on Pep (Saddler III & IV, Famechon, Savoie, Chavez, Cam, Cadilli II, McAllister III, Walton) I would't say they are THAT kind to Willie.