Zaire, Foreman's (lack of) corner and strategy

Yeah , he may have.

 

Foreman never had a strategy in his career. He found it in the ring. Sometimes he didnt manage to find it.

 

Good post as usual,Bokaj. Yes a lot of people do tend to forget how Muhammad was outboxing George in the centre of the ring just as often as he was doing so off the ropes. Muhammad made George totally forget his own jab at times.

 

It is a big upset but more writers in pre-fight polls picked Ali to beat Foreman than George to beat Frazier. I think 3-1 were the most common odds at fight time (same as George vs Joe).

 

I would Pugs but there seems to be a lot of emotion around George in classic these days and it may upset some people (although I did post one of them in another thread last week). Anyway, just for you:

Three out of four Boxing News staff and their predictions (the 5th preview was by Our Enery):

Harry Mullan:

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Simon Euan Smith:

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Lee Kerr:

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No. He said before the fight whatever you expect him to do he's not going to do.

 

I find it peculiar that people say Foreman is someone you can’t stand in front of- that it’s too dangerous, in his worst showings and most one sided when he fought Jimmy and Muhammad they both were right there countering him and blasting through openings repeatedly, Ron Lyle came right in and threw his right hand like a grenade- His outreaching defence worked well against the jabbers, till you threw a left hook, Ali lead with that repeatedly with no wising up from George, he never withdrew his rear hand to protect himself or counter it, well he tried but his left hook started behind his head there’d be no return fire quick enough to catch someone expecting a left hook, it was a free punch.

Nothing was at home to defend the right hand either, they built George’s style I think, off neutralising the jab and unloading up close. He beat an out of shape Frazier because Joe kept all his weight on the front foot, his head was the closest thing to his opponents fists, it also meant that anyone could leverage off him or push him around the ring he had no base, he was under fire and being shoved around with no chance to counter which was illegal, I think plenty of guys could do that it they knew it. Beside the point the tactic worked he took Frazier off balance and executed his plan well, more a case of the trainers initiation then Foreman’s ability, he was fast tracked for a reason ay?

He didn’t have an inside plan or ability to speak of, if he was good enough at cutting off the ring he wouldn’t be able to apply it against anyone who could stand confidently in trench warfare like the ATG “Sugar” Jimmy Young, the way he squared up GF would’ve been mince against Lennox on the inside, Lewis kept his weight on the back foot and would rip right up the middle when Foreman got in and got square it’d break his spirit after three or four goes of it if Ali had a right uppercut he’d have stopped George in about three rounds.

 

His strategy was to nullify Ali's movement by cutting off the ring and knocking him into oblivion. That's... about it. Unfortunately for Big George his only method of defense was blocking punches with his face, which is probably why Ali landed so consistently in that fight.

 

Something to think about...
You know that they were telling GF that Ali was old, had no legs, and that all George had to do was put Ali on the ropes and hit his body and that he was guaranteed to win. They told him that over and over again, until George was convinced.
Do you think that, if George came back to the corner after the 4th round, they told him to do something different that he would have done it? After weeks of being told- again and again- that putting Ali on the ropes was the way to win?
And what else was he going to do? Big George was a virtual novice when you total up his amateur and pro rounds, and he had been fighting very carefully chosen opposition for the majority of his fights. He had no other element to his game.

 

Fair points.

 

This is how I remember it being, with a sprinkling of predictions for an Ali win.
When you did read a tip for Ali, it often included an insult aimed at Foreman, at the same time (No agenda ).

Nonetheless, In 1974, Sharkey, Tunney, Dempsey, Braddock and Louis, were all still alive.

Their predictions?

- Jack Sharkey: Foreman by KO
- Jack Dempsey: "I have to go with the puncher"
- Gene Tunney: Foreman in 2
- Jim Braddock: Foreman KO (early)
- Joe Louis: Foreman inside 5

My favorite prediction was that of Joe Frazier: "I honestly don't care who wins. All I want is the winner."

Others didn't so much make a prediction, but rather rehearsed their Ali eulogies, pre-fight (Howard Coswell).

 

I have said here before … couple of folks laughed at me but that’s okay … if you could transport old Foreman’s brain into young Foreman’s body, ooh boy.

 

Yup. Foreman was never a defensive wizard especially in the years before the comeback. And he never had fast hands. So foreman was susceptible to be outboxed against the right opponent. The fights against Peralta was an early example of that. Then you had the Young defeat which happened less than three years after the Ali fight. Young was also a quick mobile boxer.

 

One could argue they were subconsciously thinking what Big George would have done to them.

 

Thanks DWC, I really appreciate that! On the fly atm, looking forward to reading.