Zaire, who else could have beat Foreman that night ?

Young Foreman was clearly bothered by boxers. Peralta had been his most difficult opponent pre Ali and Young was his most difficult post Ali. But he was still developing against Peralta and didn't look as convincing post Zaire as before. His timing looked off not only against Young, but also against Lyle and actually even in the Frazier rematch.

So it's a bit hard to say anything definitive here. What one can say is that he looked excellent cutting the ring off in Zaire, and it was a small ring and slow canvas. So even for the most skilled movers, it would be hard to get away from him.

My concern for Foreman would perhaps mostly be the big, powerful men from the coming decades. Bowe, Lewis, Vitaly - even a guy like Ike, could definitely spell trouble. When it comes to Wlad, it's a question of if he could keep George off him. You could definitely argue both ways here.

Tyson and Foreman is an open question to me. Could depend on how much pushing the ref would let Foreman get away with,

Holmes is also an open question. Would Larry be able to keep from being cornered in that small ring, and if he couldn't would he manage to something along the lines Ali did?

These questions are always hard, and in Foreman's case this is especially the case since he met so few world class opponents during his peak. Arguably only Frazier, Norton and Ali.

 

Tokyo Douglas is an intriguing call.

 

It really is not. Douglas can't handle that strength and power.

 

Perhaps a handful could have beat George that night; all the cards were in Ali's favor because...he held all the cards. That fight should have been fought in the Astrodome. Ali is IMHO the Greatest HW champ but he had everything in his favor to dictate when and where.

 

That's actually untrue. Ali walked into the ring that night with the ring canvas heavily padded. For an ordinary hwt this would have been a death sentence in the ring with prime Foreman. Ali could not move laterally without exhausting himself quickly.

 

Do

Do you actually believe that a small ring and slow canvas coupled with intense heat and humidity was in Ali's favor? Ali's plan was to to utlize movement and angles as he most often did. How were these conditions benificial to that plan, do you mean? Personally, I can't think of much worse conditions for that kind of strategy.

 

Some good posts there!

I agree on this, btw. On that ring and in those conditions, a slick boxer isn't going to cut it. You'll want some huge tank with skills. Much as I hate to say it, somebody like Bowe could have found his nirvana in a tiny ring where he could force the pace inside.

 

I like a Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield type to beat a Zaire Foreman.

 

Neither would.

 

Povetkin, Wlad, Lennox, Prime Toney, Byrd... Foreman looks a bit of the dullard in there, zero imagination, just believing that his size (which is nothing to mention by today's standards) and strength would rule the day. Either other modern giants or crafty modernists could have picked his lock.

 

Foreman, the version that Ali fought, was a talented upstart with the wrong attitude. I think even George would now recognise this about himself. Nobody knew it but He was actually ripe at that time for getting found out by the first experienced, resilient clever boxer he came up against because Nobody had stood up to him so far. George was always going to find it hard when that happened to him, somebody standing up to him, because he was only used to getting his own way at that point. Later, when he had seen it all before he would cope, but not back when he had a full head of hair.

 

Not a question of size......destructive punching power. Foreman was also deceptively quick. His uppercut was one of the most destructive punches I've seen. One of these atom bombs just barely missed Ali's chin in round one in 74.

 

Don't know Byrd that well, but could he do it if Foreman frequently cornered him? And in that ring, under those condition it would be hard not to be cornered by George. Cutting off the ring was probably the thing he did best from a technical standpoint by some distance.

Think the Toney pick is quite spot on, though. Toney defended much better on the ropes than even Ali did. Foreman would miss and be countered a LOT. If James could pick an ATG HW to look good against, young Foreman would definitely be on the shortlist.

 

Yes he was quick but un used to being hit back. That is a huge stumbling block for any prospect. With the absence of competitive wins Foreman was simply a prospect back then. That's all he was.

 

If you ko both Joe Frazier and Ken Norton within two rounds each you are far more than "just a prospect".

Foreman, the night he lost to Ali, would have beaten 98% of all hwt contenders in boxing history. Only ones who stood a chance would be those of exceptional boxing skill.....Johnson, Tunney, Louis, Ali as examples. He beats all lesser talent as it would have been tough to avoid a ko blow over the course of the first five rounds unless the opponent was exhibiting exceptional defensive boxing. George at that time was a unusual human force of nature unlike before of since.