Zaire, who else could have beat Foreman that night ?

Thank you Bill B! I noted that Big George had readopted the "drugged" story. It seemed strange given the number of times he said he was beaten fair and square! Any ideas what his current take?

 

Foreman telegraphed his right. It wouldn't take Holmes out.

 

4main is lying 2day, not then. Then he might have been wrong about 1 or 2 things, but only 2day he is lying 4 some reason.

Even if he was never poisoned, them loose ropes, d heat, humidity and sun, Ali's constantly holding him behind d head, and him coming in dehydr8ed did their magic on him, like they would have done on every1 else, Ali, Pryor and Resto included.

 

Foreman's current take would probably vary day by day, depending on who he is talking to.

Since he became a big money businessman, he wants to play the magnanimous, forgive and forget, self-deprecating good guy. It's good for business and good for his image.

In the right context, he'll still maintained he was drugged.

 

The "I was drugged" fable is totally pathetic. As has often been said,to the point of cliche,the only thing that George was doped by was Ali's right hand.

 

I don't know if it's true or not, but I don't dismiss it out-of-hand.

It would have been very easy to have done. Foreman claims his trainer Dick Saddler, did it.

Foreman fired Saddler immediately after the fight and Saddler went to work for Ali.

Ali and his manager Herbert Muhammad, refused Foreman a rematch unless he hired Saddler to train him for the fight.

No one here knows if it happened. No one here knows that it didn't happen. We probably never will know.

 

I'm going to throw in Jersey Joe Walcott at his best. Peralta showed twice that somebody of JJW's size (and he was certainly not dwarfed by Liston and Ali when the third man in Lewiston) could hang with Foreman, and Joe would be able to box entirely within his comfort zone, setting traps and catching George coming in repeatedly. Guys like Norton and Denis didn't have the power to damage Foreman boxing off the back foot. George was susceptible to facial swelling, as Ali quickly demonstrated, and as Frazier later proved in their rematch. Walcott had sufficient stamina, skill, speed, mobility and intelligence (which Denis lacked) and late round power

Foreman's lack of speed and straight punching gets overlooked far too much. The latter costs him dearly against Liston. Chuvalo and Peralta were able to stand their ground and make George give concessions to movement. Sonny would have command of the center line, and keep Foreman on the end of his jab. George was too easy a target to evade that, and Liston could handle himself when Foreman (who was no kind of infighter) tried to get close enough to make use of his physical strength. George is not outboxing him from distance, not outfighting him inside, or outlasting him.

Late career Liston shut out Henry Clark, a good young boxer, before stopping him, and was able to maintain straight punching in continual retreat when he stopped Scrap Iron Johnson. Foreman's best chance would be to try blasting him out early, like the much faster Cleveland Williams twice attempted. (His record indicates Sonny wasn't necessarily as fast a starter as his filmed blowouts of Bethea, Westphal, Harris, Patterson 2X and Bailey would suggest.) If George jumped on him like the Big Cat did, he could have the strength and power to maintain the pressure advantage until finishing the job, but if he didn't end matters quickly, this would be a doomed outcome for him. Liston was far more skilled, and Foreman too raw to overcome that refinement.

 

In my opinion,the jury is definitely out on the allegation that Foreman was refused a rematch unless Saddler was back in his corner. Probably more conspiracy theorist bollocks.

 

yes.

 

Only if he is armed with a baseball bat, and even then he would have to be carefull not to leave himself open to counters.

 

A determined and focused Frazier.

 

The Louisville Rage, Greg Page, at least the Coetzee version.

 

No way,in my opinion. Foreman was a rotten style clash for Frazier. Even a prime 1969-71 version of Joe.

 

Larry Holmes of 1980 would pick George apart.