Zale vs. Lamotta

Lamotta. Really outjabs Zale, and has underrated defense. Would be a hell of a scrap.

 

Klompton has probably seen more footage of Lamotta than anyone alive. Interested in hearing his thoughts on this, although I suspect he will heavily favor Lamotta.

 

Going against the grain and taking Zale. Better body puncher ..harder puncher..equally as tough.
The younger version of Zale wasnt as upright and stiff as seen at times in the Graziano clips. Check out the small bit of film vs Billy Soose. Although Zale dropped a decision in that one you can see how much more athletic he was when younger.
Zale UD ..out works Jake and gets him on the inside with better bodywork.

 

I just asked this, based on my own knowledge and the facts all these reliable posters give me, imo, prime Zale would be too much for Jake, ridiculous body attack, iron jaw, more punching power, I think he gets Jake at the end of one hell of a fight

 

LaMotta. He was tougher, stronger, and while Zale may have hit harder to the body I dont know that he "was a better body puncher" than LaMotta. Jake was equally famous for his bodypunching and thats usually what lead to his knockouts. Add in that Jake, in his prime, threw a lot more punches and was more aggressive and I just dont see Zale beating him. Zale wasnt going to beat him toe to toe and he wasnt even going to try to outbox him and wasnt he going to stop him either. So how does Zale win?

Id also take issue with the idea that Zale had an iron jaw. He did not. It wasnt a glass jaw but the guy could be hurt and dropped badly and it didnt take a huge puncher to do it. People always act like he was this granite jawed menace because of his nickname "the Man of Steel" but that nickname came from his hometown, Gary, Indiana, which was a Steel producing city, not from his supposed steel jaw.

No, this fight would come down to who would win on the inside and I just see Jake's advantages outweighing Zale's there. I think it would likely go to the cards with Jake winning and if anyone is getting stopped its Zale not Jake and likely later after Jake wore him down.

 

I'm curious to know why you think Jake was tougher. Zale seemed to be as absolutely tough as they come.

 

An excellent post with which I disagree.

 

In the chin department?

 

I pick Jake ,but not with any confidence.

 

What do you base this supposed toughness on? He was hurt, rocked, and dropped several times throughout his career. He had heart and wasnt a glass jawed pushover but again, his nickname wasnt based on the idea that he was made of granite. Jake is one of the most legendarily tough guys in the history of the sport. He routinely rates in top five of the most durable and dogged fighters in history. Zale doesnt compare to this and never did. To add to that Jake proved his toughness against some legendary punchers without flinching. Zale fought two guys who were "legendary punchers" Graziano and Hostak and both guys dropped him several times between them (and I would argue that Graziano's record as a puncher is smoke and mirrors). I'll go on record as saying I dont think Jake would have been dropped by either of them much less gone life or death with them.

 

I realize Zales nickname wasnt based on his jaw. I know he was a product of the steel mills.
But toughness comes in different forms. The dogged persistence of never stop trying. Getting up and fighting back after you've been dropped. Things of these nature I'd say Zale was right up at the top of the list. No dog or quite in Zale and always seemed to give 100%. So while Jake took a better shot I just dont see how that makes him tougher.
Not here to argue about it. Never am. I was just curious on your take as I'm not as caught up in this era yet. I'm still sticking with Zale though. Would have been a great fight.

 

I can't see how Zale wasn't a very tough man,he took a hellacious beating from Cerdan when well past his best,you can clearly see he is out on his feet long before he finally falls,the guy had a huge heart.Jake was made of cement.Two very hard men.I pick Jake but it would be a war.

 

I'm no expert on this era but the timeline seems to suggest , at least to me that Zale, knowing he was past his best, having lost some prime years to the war,went for the money with the new ko sensation Graziano.I can't really blame him for that.I think you could criticize him for avoiding some of the "Murderers Row before the War ,but not for looking to his pension plan when he came out of the service.As I said I'm pretty uninformed about that time, so I'm happy to be corrected on this.