Zhang vs. Muhammad Ali

Exactly.

 

I think it is time that somebody points out that Zhang is a 40 year old guy who gasses in four rounds, and was almost beaten by Jerry Forrest.

 

Few or none of these 20 top10 would be remotely competitive in the current era. In Ali's era he was a big HW, today he's a small HW. SIZE MATTERS whether you like it or not. Examples of top 10 HWs Ali defeated where CWs Patterson & Quarry. Vast majority of the rest were very small to small HWs by early 2000s standards... like Frazier or Norton. In the current era the differences are even wider.

I agreed w/you in a thread you started that too many are getting carried away by Zhang besting Joyce 2X. But I thought you were one of the members here that worships the old time HWs - especially Ali.

To beat Zhang, Ali would have to be on his toes every round AND avoid getting hit solidly. A very tall order. Both 35 I'd favor Zhang. Ali wasn't this fleet footed magic man at 35, he was well past his prime. Ali isn't stopping ZZ, not even by late round exhaustion. Zhang wasn't stopped by FIlip H, a big modern HW. Ali's only chance is a win on points.

 

Wha

What do you expect? China is the strongest country in the world.

 

Few or none of them would have been remotely competitive in this era?

Oh dear.

Size matters?

So does ability.

And more so than size for the most part.

Your post would make sense if today’s division was absolutely stacked full of elite level HW’s. But it isn’t.

Bar a handful of HW’s, there is nothing special about today’s division.

Zhang would have been a tall order for a prime Ali?

Really?

How on earth would Zhang have coped with Ali’s hand and foot speed?

Zhang isn’t fast enough or small enough to have fought Ali on the inside.

Ali would have beaten him to the punch and stayed out of his range.

 

70s Ali beats Zhang

 

I've been here for 16+ years. There's this hardcore that worships the old time HWs. They make cringy comments about Ali beating so & so as if they would be competitive vs. recent or current HWs. Using logic on them is a complete waste of time. They'll respond with something like "what the hell does that have to do w/ anything" or one of their favs "you're stupid" or "you don't know s--- about boxing".

Shavers and Foreman were big punchers back in the day when HWs were smaller. Shavers also had a so-so engine and weak punch resistance. CW Quarry KO1 Shavers for crying out loud... light punching J Young beat Foreman. Quarry & Young would be massacred by less than top HWs today. But b/c Ali beat them, all that doesn't matter. It's like you and others have posted over the years - it's as if HW boxing has stood still since the 1970s?? In every other sport where strength, speed, and size matter, current athletes are superior to those of 50 years ago. To them HW boxing is the exception

One of these days I'm going to start a thread with some catchy title and make the case that Ali defeats the great HWs that came before him. For the same reason current/ recent HWs beat Ali and other past era top HWs. Some will like it, but It will mostly be a waste of time.
Anyway, their arguments are riddled with holes but there's no impartial debate judge here to score the crude debates. I learned long ago that sports forums are not a place loaded with high intellect. There's some sharp members here, but even some of them have a bad case of nostalgia bias (for some it's masking national or racial bias). In other words...
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
#3200

 

Zhang was about to collapse vs Hrgovic in 12th round how good is Hrgovic ? We don't know he certainly didn't impress in his last fight.

Ali in his prime could dance on his feet for the entire duration of a fight, he even did it vs Norton in their 2nd fight whilst being past his prime.

You're saying Ali would not stop Zhang which is fine, but what are the chances of Zhang stopping Ali within 6 rounds ? Because more than likely Zhang would have to stop Ali early which i don't think is a very probable outcome.

Zhang has suspect stamina so unless he gets a stoppage early which is highly unlikely, the much faster and fleet footed Ali would dance rings around Zhang, and take over with his extra athleticism and fitness in the 2nd half of the fight.

Another factor which you haven't discussed is Zhang is a counter puncher, vs Ali he would have to lead and chase and that wouldn't be to Zhang's advantage who isn't the fastest guy on his feet and he would have immense trouble catching Ali.

 

Usyk is near enough the same size as Ali and hes become a top Heavyweight in this era due to his skills not his size. Usyk is also not a big puncher either so he has to rely more on his skills than the other Heavyweights.

What evidence is there that Zhang beats Ali though ? because he beat one one of the slowest Heavyweights who blocks punches with his face ?

You're claiming alot with not much substance in your post, I'm not trying to be hostile but everytime I've seen you post about Ali it's always negative.

Ali is not even close to being my favourite Heavyweight, and I'm in my early 20s so it's not like I'm biased towards older fighters.

But you're putting alot of stock into these current Heavyweights who haven't proven that much......Zhang has beat a grand total of 1 ranked fighter compared to 20 for Ali.

 

So we're comparing a prime Ali vs. 40 y/o Zhang?! How sporting of you. 40 y/o Zhang sends 40 y/o Ali to the hospital or morgue.

When I'm watching Ali I don't see all this magic that you see. Did Ali ever really beat Norton once? I agree w/ Al Bernstein. Opponents caught and landed on Ali - even pre ban. Most of these fights are on YT and I'm old enough to have seen many of them live. Little HW Frazier (very much by 2000s standards) landed a lot in their first fight when Ali was relatively young. What you and others have done w/ Ali is create this mythical fighter that never existed. He was the best in his era, and not by much. Nothing more or less.

 

Well when do you want to match them up ? When is Zhang's "prime". His best performances have come recently have they not ? his professional career prior to that was unremarkable, so we have nothing to compare it with as he's only beaten one notable fighter which is Joyce.

As for the other stuff not really interested I've addressed this before and it's boring, you discredit Ali in every topic about him. I can literally go through your post history and there will be about 100 posts with the exact same stuff like its groundhog day.

As for me building up a mythical fighter in Ali ? I find that laughable when Zhang only has 1 notable win in his entire career. Where as Ali has beaten greats and ATG's his record speaks for itself it doesn't need me to hype it up.

 

Guys, Jerry Forrest is 6'1. Zhang just beat the slowest heavyweight ever, he'd now be fighting possibly the fastest.

 

Yes, Usyk is special given what he's accomplished as a small HW. He is Ali's size. In Ali's era he's a big HW. You're cherry picking Usyk who is a great P4P boxer. Ali wasn't a big puncher facing almost all 190 something to 220lb. HWs. Could Ali accomplish what Usyk has facing current HWs? I don't think so. Ali's only chance is to stop Usyk is on a bad cut. How many great southpaws did Ali face? At 35 y/o Usyk beats Ali. It wouldn't surprise me that at 30 y/o Usyk beats Ali.

I'm not fixated on Zhang vs. Ali. But there's as much evidence that Zhang could do well vs. Ali as the other way around. Only way Ali wins is to outpoint Zhang. For a goofy sports forum, there's plenty of substance in my posts. That you can't follow rather simple logic is not my fault. You didn't read my post today were I'm going to make a thread where I make the case that Ali defeats the top HWs that came before him. But for the same reason losses to the top HWs a generation after him.

Who said you have to be old to be an Ali worshiper? Not me. Since you've joined you're averaging 10+ posts each and every day. And you might be posting on other forums, playing games for hours. Who knows? I don't know your background or support. But at your age you s/be working f/t and maybe taking some classes p/t or vice versa. Are you mostly working or a student living w/parents?

Sheesh, I've refuted that today.

 

To contemplate such a question is a poor attempt at trolling or at a minimum a sign of being a simpleton.

 

The religious fanaticism of you shows in that desperate attempt to say that usyk is prove ali could do well. The 2 share absolutely nothing other then their height. Usyk is much bigger, uses modern training methods and supplements, has this soviet boxing style that is a rather recent thing in pro boxing, he in every way stands for the innovation of boxing and not for some old glorification.
On top I can guarantee you that he will loose to Fury and Wilder and most likely also zhang. AJ is a horrible fighter and I habe been saying that for almost 10 years.