Zhang vs. Muhammad Ali

And you're the same guy that compared Hughie Fury to Muhammad Ali which shows your level of intelligence.

 

I am not saying bigger is better - the sport says bigger is better. Which is why the AVERAGE height of a top 10 heavy has increased with every generation and is now about 2-3inches taller than Ali who was a BIG heavy in his own time. Ffs Zhang would have nearly 100 pounds on Marciano, you think Marciano, who beat many world-ranked opponents, as you're so fond of saying, stands a chance against a guy as big as Zhang?

Joyce threw more punches in round NINE in his fight with Parker than Hagler or Hearns did in round ONE of their famous war. The number of punches thrown across 12 rounds is much higher now than it ever has been before because superior conditioning, peds etc. You can find this pattern across many current year fights v classic fights.

But I think that the quality across the whole division is lower so this doesn't support your case at all. It does support the idea that Ali is an ATG in the sense he had a great career, with many accomplishments etc. But does NOT support the hypothesis that if I brought him into the present he would have anywhere near that level of success.

Zhang is not the GOAT not even a hall-of-famer or ATG, those accolades are based on accomplishments. He'd still beat Ali if Ali was brought to the present because of his aggregate of physical and skill advantages.

Usyk is an exception that proves the rule, but not only that, Usyk would have been a big heavy in the 70's not typical of the 70's Usyk is taller and about the same weight as 'Big George' Foreman in his fight with Ali.


What evidence do you have to suggest that Ali would beat Zhang? How many southpaw, 6'6, 280lb fighters did Ali face? How did he fare?

 

Another ridiculous post.

No, he has not cherry picked Usyk.

Usyk is just a relevant example, of a guy of Ali’s size, having had success with his style and his attributes.

Looking at Ali’s attributes, as well as his resume, why could he not have replicated Usyk’s achievements?

Why are you making threads, where Ali could have beaten everyone before him, but not after him?

Where does this ludicrous line of thinking come from?

How do you not know that these guys would both win and lose in ANY era, simply depending on who they faced?

George Foreman was prime in the 70’s. He then lost a few before retiring. He then won a belt from a top 10 HW in the 90’s.

So if we follow your insane logic, where everything newer is greater, then how was Foreman able to do that?

Or was it an anomaly?

Well, no. Because Holmes was in his peak in the late 70’s-early 80’s, yet he could also beat top 10 HW’s of the 90’s.

Floyd Mayweather last fought at LW 20 years ago. So in 10 years time, that’s 30 years.

So are you going to be telling us in 10 years time, that Floyd couldn’t have competed with whoever the top LW’s will be at that point?

STUPID.

You’re either trolling or you’re clueless.

You’ve been here 16 years, yet you’ve not figured out that great fighters would have had MIXED success in ANY era.

What a clown.

 

Well that’s not according to me, you need to read threads and posts after joyce knocked dubois out. He was called modern day foreman.

 

Look at the state of you man.

We find you a RELEVANT example of a smaller HW who has found success just with his skills, style and his speed, yet that to you is desperate?

Really?

A logical example is now desperate?

No, you are the one who’s desperate.

Usyk is the same height, reach and weight.

Same level of power.

No, they’re not exactly the same, but they were the same size and weight, where they got/get by on skills and attributes, instead of size and power.

So they are both logical examples.

Chris Byrd would be another good example.

But wait.

Usky uses MODERN TRAINING methods.

Ha! How silly of us not to take that into account.

Ha!

You’ll also GUARANTEE that Usyk will LOOSE to Fury etc?

Really?

It’s LOSE by the way.

You guys are so clueless, it’s just painful reading your ridiculous posts.

 

Oh yeah I know what you mean my bad for not reading between the lines.

 

There are levels to this. Who has Zhang beaten to be considered to beat Ali.
Ali is extremely smart, had willpower, heart and chin. He would find a way to victory. And the gastank would be a a huge factor.

 

Apart from the fact that Usyk has 3 of the 4 main belts.

 

I've put him on ignore BTW because I didn't want to read anymore of his drivel it's a waste of my time.

But he only says it's a cherry pick because it contradicts his statement about size and makes him look foolish.

Holyfield who is smaller than Ali managed to beat Bowe and be very competitive with him who's a Super Heavyweight.

Holyfield beat Foreman who was 250+ pounds and outweighed him by over 40 pounds.

Holyfield whilst past his prime went 24 rounds and came close to beating the best Super Heavyweight in Lennox Lewis in their 2nd fight.

Holyfield whilst almost being 50 years old should've got the decision against Valuev who's frigging 7 feet.

Chris Byrd who again is smaller than Ali managed to beat Super Heavyweight Vitali, and despite the myth that people have created. Byrd was actually very competitive with Vitali and landed at way higher percentage and made Vitali miss consistently.

Ali beat many fighters of 6'3 and above Foreman, Norton, Bugner, Mathis, Terrell, Lyle, the list goes on.

But trying to logically debate with people like this is a waste of time, they have it in their heads that bigger is always better. And they call you biased and nostalgic when if anything they're the most biased of all.

No one is saying Ali would dominate in the modern era, no one is saying Ali is unbeatable. But to suggest Ali could not compete at all in this era. When fighters like Dillian Whyte was a top ranked contender at one point is laughable.

 

Thank you sooo much for posting this! You saved me the trouble

 

This is now looking like Morrison vs Mercer.

 

This is garbage.

Me and a number of others here respect fighters of all eras.

We’re not nostalgic where we can’t recognise great fighters from the modern era.

Also, all throughout the thread I’ve said that the great HW’s of the past would have mixed success depending upon who they fought and how they matched up.

So that’s about as unbiased and objective as you can be.

What’s ignorant is completely dismissing every guy from the past, simply due to a notion that everything newer is better.

That line of thinking is unbelievably ignorant.


Now let’s look at your garbage generalisations from above.

All today’s guys are bigger, stronger and faster, with better gas tanks and superior diets.

Ha!

Really??

How many of today’s guys were faster than Ali and Patterson?

How many had more stamina than Frazier?

AJ and Wilder have both gassed numerous times.

How many HW’s today are stronger than Foreman?

Superior diets??

Ha! That one made me laugh out loud.

Zhang is overweight and nowhere near in the best shape possible.

The same applies to Tyson Fury.

And Andy Ruiz.

And Luis Ortiz.

And Dillian Whyte and Derek Chisora etc.

You have made an ignorant generalisation that doesn’t even stack up.


You talk an about people being cringy and nostalgic etc??

We’ve been told that Ali couldn’t compete today because he wasn’t big or powerful.

We then offered up an example of how great Usky is doing, but then get told that we’re cherry picking and that he doesn’t count.

Pathetic.


You guys don’t even deserve to be fans of this great sport.

 

Any great fighter from one era could compete with any other great fighter from another.

Guys of any era.

Let’s just use common sense and use that as a starting point.

Regarding Marciano vs Zhang, Zhang would’ve had to have gotten him out of there before he started to gas.

Using punch stats from one fight is not evidence that today’s guys are better conditioned.

We can show you where AJ, Zhang and Wilder etc, have all gassed in fights.

I can show you guys from other divisions too.

Nobody has any EVIDENCE of who would win between Zhang vs Ali, but we can make an EDUCATED guess upon a number of factors.

No, Ali didn’t fight southpaws like Zhang.

Likewise, Zhang has never fought anybody like Ali before.

But we can also look at Ali’s hand speed, foot speed, reflexes, timing, accuracy and stamina.

So looking at their attributes and their resumes, we can clearly see that Ali had superior speed and stamina at his best.

Could we say for sure what would have happened? No.

But Ali would have been favoured on his attributes, his experience and more importantly, on how they’d realistically have matched up on the night stylistically.

Unless an out of shape 280 pound Zhang could have caught up to Ali and closed him down, then Ali would have won on points by using his superior speed, athleticism and stamina.

At this stage, there is more logic in predicting a win for Ali than vice versa.

What exactly is your argument for Zhang winning?

His wins over Joe Joyce?

The fact that it’s 2023, and you’re assuming that everything newer is better?

What??

 

Muhammed Ali would crucify that Chinese oaf, Geez! he beats a slow 38 year old and people think he's now able to beat the greatest heavyweight who ever lived?

 

Exactly it's like people can't read and just randomly go on a rant.

Have i not said that Ali would not dominate in this era ? Have i not said there is greatness in the modern era and past era ? Have i not said that Ali is far from my favourite Heavyweight ?

So please tell me if anyone is reading this post where am I being nostalgic ? And where is my biased opinion based on older fighters ?

All I've basically said is that it's crazy to suggest Zhang beats ATG's based on beating 1 ranked fighter in his whole career who only had 15 pro fights and is slow with no defence.

Being bigger does not always mean better as Holyfield, Usyk, have both showed in their careers by beating much larger Heavyweights than themselves. Ali himself is bigger than Holyfield and is a similar size to Usyk, so I think a logical assumption is that Ali could more than hold his own in this era. I don't see how that's being "biased" or "nostlagic" if anything the posters claiming this are the actual biased ones with one tracked minds.