Zhang vs. Muhammad Ali

This is the best post of the thread.

Full of logical examples.

It’s just unfortunate that it’ll be completely ignored by those clowns.

The circus must be in town.

 

Another outstanding post.

Yes, the irony is simply staggering.

We are labelled as being biased etc, yet they don’t realise just how damn ignorant and biased that they themselves are being.

It’s ridiculous.

The funniest part is when they talk about diets etc.

It literally makes me laugh out loud.

Half of today’s top 15 fighters are out of shape and nowhere near as conditioned as what they could be.

But of course, everything newer is superior.

It’s just laughable.

I once had Ertwin tell me that we’re on a continuous cycle of progression, to the point that he knows that Tyson Fury couldn’t compete with whoever the best HW’s will be in 20 years. Ha!

I asked him how he knew that those future HW’s would all be superior. And he said that it was only logical.

Ha! So by his own logic, PBF couldn’t compete today with today’s LW’s.

I also got no answer when I repeatedly asked him why the MW’s of the early 90’s were on a completely different level to these current MW’s of today, which have supposedly had 30 years of progression.

That level of ignorance is forgivable. But if Decker isn’t trolling with his posts, and he really has been here for 16 years, then there’s no words to that level of stupidity and ignorance.

What a joke

We should both get paid for this.

 

Marciano is a Cruiserweight by today's standards so no i wouldn't claim that, but we're not talking about Marciano we're strictly talking about Ali who is a similar size to Usyk is he not ? both are 6'3, both have 78 inch reach and there's not much difference in weight. So why can't Ali compete in this era like Usyk ? Ali arguably has more power than Usyk, i would say handspeed wise he has the edge, and he's certainly more durable to body shots, where as Usyk is more technically sound and is a Southpaw.

Many of the old fights had 1000s of punches thrown in them

Ali vs Frazier
Bowe vs Holyfield
Norton vs Holmes = How many punches did they throw in the 15th round after a brutal fight ?
Tua vs Ikeabuchi

the list goes on and on.

You've gave one example but what about the other Heavyweights ? has Zhang got great stamina ? no. Has Wilder got great stamina ? no. Fury has a moderate punch output. So your claim of all these Heavyweight's having better stamina is false.

And where are all these Heavyweight's that are faster ? you also claimed this and didn't give any examples.

It proves that Ali fought many more world class fighters overall and is far more proven, your only argument is "size". But clearly Usyk shoots down that theory in flames because he isn't a big Heavyweight for todays standards, and yet he's consider one of the best Heavyweights in the world. Infact as i've stated before Usyk is a similar size to Heavyweights of 70s and 80s, and he's been successful based on his skills not his size. Which pretty much illustrates my point that "size" isn't everything and skills can overcome size as Usyk has done.

Even Wilder has weighed below 220 pounds and is considered one of the hardest hitting Heavyweights of the modern era, again that also shoots down your theory in flames regarding the weight.

Even frigging Ruiz is only 6'1 and is an overweight obese man, yet he beat the living crap out of Joshua who's a big muscle bounded 6'5 fighter.

Based on what ? you're claiming alot with no substance in your posts what so ever. Do you not realize that actually beating good opponents is how we rate fighters ? all your doing is having a 1 track mind and basing Zhang's victory based on his size. Without looking at the fact Ali was never stopped early in his professional career and fought huge punchers, Zhang has a suspect gas tank and would more than likely have to finish Ali early which isn't a realistic scenario. Zhang also has slow feet and would have great difficulty catching up to the much faster fleet footed Ali.

So unless in a very unlikely scenario the slow Zhang catches Ali within first 6 rounds, i would heavily favour Ali's much better fitness and athleticism to carry the fight in the 2nd half which Ali is far more proven in.

Yes so why can't Ali be successful then ? i don't understand your logic at all. In one sentence you're saying Usyk is comparable to the size of Heavyweight's in the 70s. Yet in another sentence you say "Ali couldn't compete because of the size" when infact you're contradicting your own statement make up your mind.

Norton was 220
Foreman was 220
Ali could weigh between 215-220
Bugner was 230
Lyle was 220

And all these fighters are 6'3 with Bugner being 6'4 which are all comparable to Usyk's size.

 

*In Apollo Creed’s trainer, Tony’s voice*

“Throw in the towel! Throw in the damn towel!!”

Ha!

In the 11-12 years that I’ve been here, this has to be the most brutal beat down that I’ve ever seen.

 

One thing that stands out with the nostalgic crowd, is that you can tell they dont work out and are mostly keybord warriors and were never in a very good shape.
Only an absolute ****** uses Holyfield or Usyk as an example of smaller size HW that can compete with todays era.
Holyfield was a fuking unit in the 90s and bigger then foreman, and Usyk would be about the size of foreman, who back then was an absolute monster. Its not only about a lbs number, but also the bodyfat abd muscle mass a fighter carries

 

Speak for yourself simpleton I'm 6'1 almost 200 pounds about to become a personal trainer. I workout 5 days a week and I guarantee I'm in way better shape than you.

Holyfield was 205 pounds for alot of his career until he bulked up with PEDs.

There is no nostalgia crowd you moron just two simpletons in this thread that haven't got a clue what they're talking about with you being one of them.

 

Zhang is a 40 year old who has never even fought for a belt.

By the time Ali was 40 he’d won and lost the title 3 times and been in a whole heap of iconic wars against all time greats.

He beats Zhang in any way he chooses.

 

lol most fitness trainers look like ass, i am 100% bigger then you and would slay you in a boxing match, I even posted my first amateur fight on here. You already stating that you are 200 pounds at 6‘1 shows that you have that typical thinking you are big but in reality are fat physique. I competet at Mw and Lhw mostly and am the same height as you.
Yes I obviously talk about the big Holyfield, not him in his amsteur days. He was way bigger then Foreman in his youth, and he started using Peds from the get go, like everybody else

 

Holyfield is also very ripped at 205, most likely 12-13% bodyfat, ali on the other Hand was a total fatso at times with bodyfats often other 20%

 

Lol, Usyk is number one and Joshua is a number 2 in HW division right now. What are you talking about, clownwin?

 

If people aren't automatically saying Zhang would beat Usyk due to size then why would they take him over Ali? Usyk and Ali are essentially the same size and Usyk himself wouldn't claim he'd beat Ali.

 

Then explain why a 45 year old George Foreman could come back and brutally KO the undefeated, undisputed, lineal heavyweight champion almost 20 years his junior. You know, if everything evolves as you say it does then Moorer should have KO'd Foreman easily.

Your argument is bullsh!t and you are a moron.

 

Because you're dealing with twiddle dee and twiddle dumb that can't comprehend simple logic. They just look at fighters now and say "Yeah they win because they're bigger" when infact Ali and alot of the 70s Heavyweights were reasonably sized to take on alot of the Heavyweights now. 6'3 220 pounds is similar size to Usyk who isn't strong or powerful, and relies on his skillset which contradicts all these stupid theories about size.

But you try explaining it and you will be hitting your head against a brick wall, these type of people think Heavyweight boxing now is far superior to years ago what an absolute joke.

Most of the Heavyweights now are in there late 30s for crying out loud Zhang is 40. And embarrassingly Ali has more wins against top 10 ranked fighters than the whole of the top 10 current Heavyweights.

 

We haven't seen Zhang with a mobile heavyweight. If he can actually cut the ring off and catch Ali, he might beat even a prime Ali. But I doubt it because I think speed is what gave Ali problems, not power. Zhang moves well for his size but anyone against Joyce looks fast in comparison. Ali in his prime was probably the fastest HW ever, besides maybe Mike Tyson or Floyd Patterson.

One of the guys who gave Ali problems was Doug Jones, who was a small but quick HW. And for whatever reason, Ali lost his speed when he returned from his absence. His doctor said he was showing signs of Parkinson's in his mid to late 20s, so even Ali when he fought Frazier wasn't the same fighter that fought Liston.

For me, if it was Ali after the Rumble in the Jungle, I'd roll with Zhang by brutal KO. Before that and especially in his early 20s, I'd probably take Ali by boring decision with Zhang having the proverbial puncher's chance. And I'm not sure when Zhang's prime was/is but I doubt it is now. But without question I'd take an old Zhang over an old Ali who no longer had his legs.

 

Oh geez!!! Ali beat, Liston, Frazier ,Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, and YOU think he'd get knocked out by a 40 year old chinaman?