Zora Folley how good is his resume?

You are taking their entire careers here. Folley and Machen continued to box, and in fairness beating good men, well into the sixties. Harris had a losing streak, and retired to become a lawyer.

But how do their records compare at the time Harris challenged Patterson, or at the end of the decade?

I will post the records at that point in a followup post.

 

Agreed,

The hindsight and eventuality of how the "rest" of their careers played out is irrelevant when justifying who was deserving of a title bout within a given time frame.

 

Records of Folley, Machen, and Harris in summer of 1958

Eddie Machen

24 wins--0 losses--1 draw

ever rated fighters defeated

Nino Valdes* (2)
John Holman*
Johnny Summerlin
Joey Maxim (2)
Bob Baker
Hurricane Jackson*

*probably to the best of my knowledge rated when Machen fought them.

Zora Folley

39 wins--2 losses--2 draws

ever rated fighters defeated

Nino Valdes*
Wayne Bethea* (2)
(Roger Rischer)

Comment--Rischer got into the ratings in 1964. A victory over him probably didn't mean that much to the rating folks in 1958.

Roy Harris

22 wins--0 losses--0 draws

ever rated fighters defeated

Willie Pastrano*
Bob Baker*
Willi Besmanoff
Charley Norkus

Comment--Joey Rowan was described as a rated contender on a TV bout that is on youtube. This would have been in 1955 when he KO'd Bert Whithurst in one round, outpointed Wayne Bethea, and drew with Bob Satterfield. I haven't seen such a rating in writing though.

I will do the at the end of 1959 records on a follow-up post.

 

Records of Machen, Folley, and Harris at the end of 1959

Eddie Machen

31 wins--1 loss--1 draw

ever rated fighters defeated

Nino Valdes* (2)
John Holman*
Johnny Summerlin
Joey Maxim (2)
Bob Baker
Hurricane Jackson*
Young Jack Johnson
Willi Besmanoff
Pat McMurtry

Zora Folley

49 wins--3 losses--2 draws

Nino Valdes*
Wayne Bethea* (2)
Joe Bygraves
Alex Miteff*
Willi Besmanoff
Alonzo Johnson
Roger Rischer

Roy Harris

28 wins--1 loss--0 draws

ever rated fighters beaten

Willie Pastrano*
Bob Baker*
Willi Besmanoff
Charley Norkus
Charlie Powell*
Joe Bygraves
Alejandro Lavorante
Henry Hall
Joey Rowan

This and the above post should give a fair view of the relative records of the three men in the 1950's

*My own take

1---Machen
2---Harris
3---Folley

Just on accomplishments to this point in career.

 

And Pastrano might be the best individual win of this grouping.

 

Than quit acting like a mcvey or hegrant that wants to push old arguments in every post. It's obvious and not appealing.

That reply was targeting Folley and had nothing to do with anybody else.

 

When Roy Harris received a title shot against Floyd Patterson, he was the third-rated heavyweight behind Machen and Folley. But Machen and Folley had just fought to a boring draw. So Patterson went with the third-rated contender who was more exciting.

Did Patterson also consider Harris an easier win than Machen and Folley? Probably. But Harris got the shot. It happens.

When Folley got a title shot at Muhammad Ali in 1967, there were 10 FIGHTERS rated ahead of him in the WBA ratings. And Folley was picked over all of them.

Did Ali pick him because he would be easier to beat than someone like Joe Frazier, Thad Spencer or Leotis Martin? Probably.

Was Folley considered more exciting than a Frazier or a Spencer? No. But Folley got the shot.

It happens.

 

Lol, apparently you dont get the idea of time being linear. Harris beat Pastrano over a year before Pastrano lost to those AND more importantly he was signed to fight Patterson and did fight Patterson before Pastrano lost those guys. Decisions like rankings etc are made at the time, not in hindsight.

 

This is a fair enough argument,

but your argument that Harris was miles behind in the fifties just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

Pastrano was NBA 3 when Harris beat him.

And I would argue a stronger 3 since Valdes lost 3 of his last 4, and Pastrano Was on a 12-0-1 run.

Valdes was not the logical contender when Machen beat him, he had been through a grinder since than.

 

SuzieQ49

I didn't really state my position well, so I corrected that post.

"Harris looks mediocre on film"

Klompin2 pointed out the limited film of Harris.

I have only seen the Liston fight, and the very edited version of the Patterson fight, limited to highlights such as the Harris knockdowns.

If we had a good performance from him, such as his one-sided decision over Charlie Powell, or his fights with Baker or Pastrano, drawing a conclusion on film would be okay.