Tex Cobb vs Sonny Liston: does Cobb make it to the end?

Ellis was a blown up light HW and that's one of Shavers best KOs. Patterson has a better resume and is arguably more skilled than anyone Shavers beat.

Already told you who Bethea was. An iron chinned contender and Liston was the only one to knock him out, proving Liston had elite power.

Uh, yes he did beat guys bigger than him. Williams, Wepner, Zech, etc.

Liston would go through Norton and Ellis like a hot knife through butter. Beats Bugner on points. Probably beats Young too.

I would imagine Liston could drop Holmes and Lyle since fighters like Scott Ledoux and Renaldo Snipes.

Not sure how you gathered that Clark thought Liston's power was "nothing" just because he thinks Shavers hits harder. By your logic, you are either a super duper hard puncher of you're feather fisted and Clark thinks every other opponent has bad punching power.

Do these punches look like they're "nothing"...? You can hear the dull thud of his fists even with the crowd cheering.

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I seem to remember that at the time that happened they claimed Liston hit Bethea with a straight left & when the ref checked him the punch had pushed Bethea's front teeth up into the roof of his mouth & that was why the ref stopped the fight. Whether that is legend or 100% true who knows.

 

So you have to take what Lyle says with a grain of salt. "The guy he knocked out hits harder than the guy who knocked him out" can be true, but is sometimes just the fighter patting himself on the back.

Ranked fighters>Big fighters when it comes to evaluating punching power. Liston beat Patterson 2x, Folley, Machen, Williams 2x, Harris, Henry Clark. That's 8 ranked opponents.

Shavers ranked wins: Norton.


That's a staggering difference.


Shavers didn't even KO that many big fighters so idk why you keep harping on about this.

I didn't say Shavers was inaccurate, I said Liston was more accurate than Shavers. Reading comprehension.

Young had like 8 fights when Shavers stopped him. Bugner was stopped on a cut.

My point was that Tex Cobb isn't guaranteed to hear the final bell just because hasn't been KOd. Liston has stopped some tough rugged fighters.

 

Liston could not drop Machen,Marshall and Leotis Martin who were smaller than him how the hell would he drop Larry?
Liston wouldn't be able to even catch him like against Muhammad Ali but prime Holmes was better than 1964 Ali.
I don't know about Lyle but he is tougher and stronger than Cleveland Williams and would give Liston helluva fight.

 

But Ellis did better than Patterson against HWs and Shavers destroyed him.
Patterson better resume than Norton?
He can match Bugner in terms of resume but not Norton.

Who?
The guy who lost against everyone he fought?
If Liston stopped Wepner faster than Quarry I would maybe believe in that elite power.
I never see Liston stopping top elite man bigger than him, his power is not proven on elite fighters and man above 200 pounds.
Foreman is much nore proven there, had Liston fought Chuvalo and Bonavena and stop them I would maybe believe in elite power.

They are not as good as Bugner,Norton and Young.

Ellis Yes, Norton maybe but Young would outbox him.

He couldn't drop Machen,Leotis Martin and Marshall who were small and nothing compared to Holmes, how the hell would he be able to drop Larry?
We talk about Holmes not some glass jaw Williams who would stand and trade with him.

Ali and Clark both fought Liston and Shavers, and guess whom they mentioned as thr hardest puncher they ever fought?

 

Ranked or no their legacies are not comparable with Norton,Young,Ellis and Bugner plus these were bigger man.

 

But who did that before or after?
No one.

 

Who?
Wepner and Scrap Johnson?
Atleast Cobb was bigger,stronger and has better wins.
If Liston fought and beat guys like Chuvalo and Bonavena I would maybe believe in his power.

 

What happened with Earnie Shavers against Jerry Quarry on Dec 14 1973? Jerry blasted him out by KO1.

 

Shavers was definitely a dangerous fighter, he stopped some good fighters. But Shavers was not the first or the last person to knockout or knockdown Bugner.
Bugner had been knocked out by Paul Brown in his first fight, knocked down by Joe Frazier, and out pointed and knocked down by Larry Middleton before being stopped on a cut by Shavers. Bugner, at age 37 was also knocked out by Frank Bruno. And later, in his 40s he was stopped again.
Shavers was a big puncher, but his knockdown of Holmes was his only "moment" in 2 fights and 23 rounds with Holmes. The knockdown round is the only round Shavers won out of 23. Holmes had won all of the rounds of their first fight and all of the rounds leading up to the knockdown in the second fight and then he won all of the rounds after the knockdown and he stopped Shavers. It was not a "competitive" fight, Holmes may have had a momentary lapse in concentration that Shavers took advantage of to knock him down?

 

Patterson was old when he fought Ellis and many people thought he got robbed.

Patterson absolutely has a better resume than Norton. He is a 2x champion and gold medalist and he beat more ranked contenders. Norton is a 1x champion who won a vacant belt and doesn't have a whole lot outside of his wins over Ali, Bobbcik, and an old Quarry.

Cobb lost against almost everyone he fought too. You can both be a bad boxer AND have a granite chin. Stopping a granite chinned opponent is impressive. Not sure why this point keeps sailing over your head.

Funny you keep bringing up Wepner because I thought he said something about Liston hitting harder than Foreman.

I didn't say they were. You asked if Liston ever beat men larger than himself and I answered your question. You gonna keep shifting the goal posts whenever I address things?

Liston was anywhere from 39-45 years old when he fought Martin and way past his prime. Would you like me to bring up the opponents Shavers failed to beat when he was that age?

Old man Liston beat up Martin so bad he got a detached retina and had to retire despite scoring the KO.

Machen did not really engage with Liston and fought a cautious defensive fight. You want to talk about Shavers failing to stop smaller opponents, how about Quarry (who knocked him out in 1 round), Bob Stallings, or Ron Stander...?

Shavers. What's your point? Does this mean Liston was feather fisted? By your bizarre logic, Frazier, Foreman, and Lyle can't punch their way out of a paper bag because people think Shavers hit harder than them.

Did I say Liston hit just as hard or better than Shavers? I don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore.

Yes, they do compare. I dare you to make a poll comparing Liston and Shaver's resumes.

Young had over a dozen losses, Ellis didn't really do so great at HW outside of the very controversial tournament he won.

And nobody ever stopped Bethea.

Nobody ever won the lineal HW championship in such a devasting 1 round blowout the way Liston did.

If you don't think Liston had elite punching power you are either blind, a hater, or you apparently think almost everyone is feather fisted but Shavers.

 

Good info on Joe Bugner. Good Post.

 

I voted "YES".
And judging by this:
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/mount-rushmore-of-hw-chins.713014/page-2
1. Oliver McCall
2. George Chuvalo
3. Mohammad Ali
4. Randall Cobb
...Tex Cobb would withstand the "heat" of Sonny Liston and lose by points.