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Why Do You Believe Floyd Mayweather is TBE?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Gannicus, Feb 15, 2017.

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aaalbert Boxing Addict Full Member

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MVC! said: ↑

One of the worst writeups ever, everything wrong, everything biased. Floyd would smash Pacquiao, and he already did.
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Haha

aaalbert, Feb 15, 2017

#31

Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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Gannicus said: ↑

I am not quiet in my lofty praise for Floyd's abilities, I think he's probably Top 10 of all time in terms of how good he is (overall, Top 40 in terms of greatness).

I have major trouble considering him TBE, though because:

1. We haven't seen him in there with ATG, stylistic threats at-or-near prime. Instead, we have evidence of him facing Castillo and Maidana who were the stylistic threats. IMO he's 2-1-1 in that series.
Maidana would've beaten a 2007 version of Mayweather IF Maidana didn't make the simple pacing strategy error of punching himself out. Hear me out here - Roberto Garcia told Maidana that he has to land around 100 punches per round to win. Once Maidana had clearly won a round within about a minute and a half of his own work, Maidana carried on going, expending unecessary energy. Maidana has stamina issues anyway, and he could've danced around to secure the point for whatever round he was clearly ahead in, whilst having energy in the latter rounds to keep up the pace.
In the rematch, Roberto Garcia screwed up AGAIN, but by this time making Maidana stand and fight in the centre of the ring a little more, emphasising more pure boxing which is Mayweather's game.

Because of the nature of Maidana's losses being more basic tactical errors, it wouldn't seem befitting to call Mayweather TBE.
Also, the JLC fight, there may be proof that Mayweather really did have a torn rotator cuff, but I'm not sure. Mayweather's greatest victory was over Castillo, not any of the others.
People make fun of Pacquiao for losing to Marquez, but at the end of the day, Pac had an even rivalry with Marquez, who is an ATG, ultimate stylistic threat to Pac.

Who is better, Pac or Floyd? Well Pac is not TBE, and I'd be inclined to think that Floyd is better BUT the evidence doesn't really allow me to make that judgement.

2. Floyd's approach to boxing - Hit and Don't Get Hit - but unfortunately he doesn't 'hit' enough to be able to soundly beat the other TBE level fighters of old i.e a Napoles, Duran, Leonard etc. I've done a pretty basic thread on why Mayweather couldn't possibly beat Duran:
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/roberto-duran-wouldve-schooled-floyd-mayweather-jr-9-3.579618/
They were all complete fighters, but this is where Floyd lacks.

3. PED era started from mid 40's and there were a larger talent pool, and a focus on skill in the older times. They had the raw PED's and the testing was even worse than even a modern day USADA. The argument 'new timers beat old timers' holds no real weight.

4. No at-or-near prime ATG or even higher, mid, lower mid tier HOF on his resume.

5. My TBE's are RJJ, SRR, Duran, Ali as Clay, Leonard, Hearns, Napoles. They're locks and have proven why they're locks. I don't have to 'suspect' they're TBE level the way I 'suspect' Lomachenko is TBE level.

Outside of these points, Floyd especially at 130 (he wasn't aggressive like his biggest fans want to paint him as, on the basis of a youtube highlight video), was one of the very best ever but it's those factors mentioned which is why I don't feel he can soundly be seen as TBE.

This content is protected

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agree TBE are duran at LW SRR and Hearns at WW RJJ from MW to LHW and holyfeld at 190 clay and ibeabuchi at HW

Contro, Feb 15, 2017

#32

sponge Active Member Full Member

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Floyd is TBE in terms of business making money.
TBE skill-wise.
NOT TBE in terms of greatness, could have beaten EVERY pound4pound at weltrrweight and jr middleweight.

BEST CHIN out there, you need a heavyweight go KO him.

So there...

sponge, Feb 15, 2017

#33
Mortal Member Full Member

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sponge said: ↑

Floyd is TBE in terms of business making money.
TBE skill-wise.
NOT TBE in terms of greatness, could have beaten EVERY pound4pound at weltrrweight and jr middleweight.

BEST CHIN out there, you need a heavyweight go KO him.

So there...
Click to expand...

Floyd Is not TBE skill wise. There's a case for him being TBE in defensive skill maybe but not in terms of complete skillset.

Mortal, Feb 15, 2017

#34

sponge, Gannicus and aaalbert like this.

Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

It not that Floyd is TBE. He just refused to lose against guys like Junior Jones, Torrecampo, Raheem, Singsurat, Mosley, Pac and others. His refusal to lose is what separates him from many greats but by no means is he TBE.
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I see where you're coming from but pre-prime and post-prime losses doesn't matter when we're considering who is TBE because TBE assesses them in their respective primes.
Monzon and Napoles drew and lost a number of times before they hit their primes, am I going to hold that against them? Absolutely not.

Gannicus, Feb 16, 2017

#35
tinman Loyal Member Full Member

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BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

It not that Floyd is TBE. He just refused to lose against guys like Junior Jones, Torrecampo, Raheem, Singsurat, Mosley, Pac and others. His refusal to lose is what separates him from many greats but by no means is he TBE.
Click to expand...

If you are going to go that route then Floyd Mayweather went life and death with Reggie Sanders. A man who's record was 1-1. I had Floyd wining rounds 2 and 4. Sanders winning round 1 and 3. For a draw. Most people do not realize how close Floyd came to getting a draw against Reggie Sanders. He barely squeaked out rounds 1 and 3. Many had him losing those rounds.

tinman, Feb 16, 2017

#36
Ike-Man Active Member Full Member

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TBE's been dead for 28 years.

Ike-Man, Feb 16, 2017

#37

Ike-Man Active Member Full Member

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toxedo911 said: ↑

He is clearly. Time immortalizes legends. He will be the one.

I came into the boxing world as a a novice, curious about the sport, I would look at Pacquiao and he would finish common opponents quicker......

I was foolish, Gym trainers and fighters told me, forget the Tyson and Pacquiaos, these fighters are for the casual fan.

You want Science and beauty watch Maywether.... I did not get it.

Then I watch old tapes of fighters, starting with Jack Johnson,

I witnessed the evolution, in boxing from Sugar ray Robinson to Leonard.

The old mongoose, and Willie pep.

I watched Floyd and saw all the tricks of the trade. I saw all the skills and moves these fighters had in him, Plus more.

aka the pull counter, the check hook. so many tricks. that if you use them in a ring, you will defend ya self and then batter your opponent.

Floyd takes no punishment in the ring. His head is hardly rocked back. He makes boxing look simple, and sucks away battle. He makes you play boxing, because if you try to fight and Maul him, you may get knocked out. If you try to box him cleverly, he will outbox you......

The only way to beat Money may outside of simply being too big, is to outbox him. I believe the new gen has fighters that are capable, but the old gen champions all looked like gatekeepers compared to him.Most fighters meet in their generation their equal, May never had an equal in the old pac/del hoya/mosley/cotto gen, no one outside of the new gen hads caught up to his skill set.

The new gen have, due to his influence, there is a large amount of guys who picked up his tricks.........Hence why after dominating he decided to avoid these guys.

He is the best of this era. he is the tbe. The next Gen P4P may knock him off though, depending if they can last as long, and break some type of boxing mile stone in terms of belts gained, and defenses against high ranked or champion level fighters.

As much people hate the 0, it matters, going 49 fights without taking a loss against top competition is incredible, majority of fighters lose in their first step up.
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Rocky Marciano's also 49-0

Ike-Man, Feb 16, 2017

#38
RacingBeat Casual lives matter Full Member

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BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

It not that Floyd is TBE. He just refused to lose against guys like Junior Jones, Torrecampo, Raheem, Singsurat, Mosley, Pac and others. His refusal to lose is what separates him from many greats but by no means is he TBE.
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So salty always got to get in a dig at guys like pac and zoo ( you forgot to mention Vince Phillips )

Great fighters knockout guys like Carlos Baldomir

Last edited: Feb 16, 2017

RacingBeat, Feb 16, 2017

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the factor Active Member banned Full Member

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He was more interested in making money than proving greatness. Nothing wrong with making as much as you can because that's what you have to do when your chosen profession is boxing. Any decent fighter can look good against opposition over whom you have every advantage be it legal or illegal. He extended his career with ped use and got away with it by having plenty of money to pay off corrupt usada. 3 positive A samples with an inadvertent use exemption and an illegal tue and that's just the stuff he got caught with so god only knows what else he was on. His p4p ranking will take a big hit due to his ped use and cherry picking. Loma is already the better fighter of the two and only needs a few more years of doing what he has already done to move ahead of him on the greatest list. This must have his fan boys (led by mvc) cringing in pain to know that so soon after his retirement some one comes along to make him a fast fading memory.

the factor, Feb 16, 2017

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BlizzyBlizz Loyal Member Full Member

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RacingBeat said: ↑

So salty always got to get in a dig at guys like pac and zoo ( you forgot to mention Vince Phillips )

Great fighters knockout guys like Carlos Baldomir
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Nobody was talking about Zoo in this instance. You can't dick ride Pac anymore so now you're crying. Cry baby.

BlizzyBlizz, Feb 16, 2017

#41

BlizzyBlizz Loyal Member Full Member

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tinman said: ↑

If you are going to go that route then Floyd Mayweather went life and death with Reggie Sanders. A man who's record was 1-1. I had Floyd wining rounds 2 and 4. Sanders winning round 1 and 3. For a draw. Most people do not realize how close Floyd came to getting a draw against Reggie Sanders. He barely squeaked out rounds 1 and 3. Many had him losing those rounds.
Click to expand...

Stop lying lol. Sanders gave a good account of himself to a young Floyd and clearly lost.

BlizzyBlizz, Feb 16, 2017

#42

Pimp C likes this.
BlizzyBlizz Loyal Member Full Member

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Gannicus said: ↑

I see where you're coming from but pre-prime and post-prime losses doesn't matter when we're considering who is TBE because TBE assesses them in their respective primes.
Monzon and Napoles drew and lost a number of times before they hit their primes, am I going to hold that against them? Absolutely not.
Click to expand...

I don't take anything away from Pac and those terrible losses. I don't take anything away from Pac like they do with Floyd. This very thread and the posters posting always try to but they can't because facts are facts.

Last edited: Feb 16, 2017

BlizzyBlizz, Feb 16, 2017

#43
Bustajay Feel the Steel/Balls Deep Full Member

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I believe it because Floyd said so bro
TBE

Bustajay, Feb 16, 2017

#44

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Pimp C Too Much Motion

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Gannicus said: ↑

I am not quiet in my lofty praise for Floyd's abilities, I think he's probably Top 10 of all time in terms of how good he is (overall, Top 40 in terms of greatness).

I have major trouble considering him TBE, though because:

1. We haven't seen him in there with ATG, stylistic threats at-or-near prime. Instead, we have evidence of him facing Castillo and Maidana who were the stylistic threats. IMO he's 2-1-1 in that series.
Maidana would've beaten a 2007 version of Mayweather IF Maidana didn't make the simple pacing strategy error of punching himself out. Hear me out here - Roberto Garcia told Maidana that he has to land around 100 punches per round to win. Once Maidana had clearly won a round within about a minute and a half of his own work, Maidana carried on going, expending unecessary energy. Maidana has stamina issues anyway, and he could've danced around to secure the point for whatever round he was clearly ahead in, whilst having energy in the latter rounds to keep up the pace.
In the rematch, Roberto Garcia screwed up AGAIN, but by this time making Maidana stand and fight in the centre of the ring a little more, emphasising more pure boxing which is Mayweather's game.

Because of the nature of Maidana's losses being more basic tactical errors, it wouldn't seem befitting to call Mayweather TBE.
Also, the JLC fight, there may be proof that Mayweather really did have a torn rotator cuff, but I'm not sure. Mayweather's greatest victory was over Castillo, not any of the others.
People make fun of Pacquiao for losing to Marquez, but at the end of the day, Pac had an even rivalry with Marquez, who is an ATG, ultimate stylistic threat to Pac.

Who is better, Pac or Floyd? Well Pac is not TBE, and I'd be inclined to think that Floyd is better BUT the evidence doesn't really allow me to make that judgement.

2. Floyd's approach to boxing - Hit and Don't Get Hit - but unfortunately he doesn't 'hit' enough to be able to soundly beat the other TBE level fighters of old i.e a Napoles, Duran, Leonard etc. I've done a pretty basic thread on why Mayweather couldn't possibly beat Duran:
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/roberto-duran-wouldve-schooled-floyd-mayweather-jr-9-3.579618/
They were all complete fighters, but this is where Floyd lacks.

3. PED era started from mid 40's and there were a larger talent pool, and a focus on skill in the older times. They had the raw PED's and the testing was even worse than even a modern day USADA. The argument 'new timers beat old timers' holds no real weight.

4. No at-or-near prime ATG or even higher, mid, lower mid tier HOF on his resume.

5. My TBE's are RJJ, SRR, Duran, Ali as Clay, Leonard, Hearns, Napoles. They're locks and have proven why they're locks. I don't have to 'suspect' they're TBE level the way I 'suspect' Lomachenko is TBE level.

Outside of these points, Floyd especially at 130 (he wasn't aggressive like his biggest fans want to paint him as, on the basis of a youtube highlight video), was one of the very best ever but it's those factors mentioned which is why I don't feel he can soundly be seen as TBE.

This content is protected

Click to expand...

Another thread to prove that you still haven't gotten over the night of May 2nd 2015 AKA "Easy Work" you're bitter and can't sleep at night, PBF owns you . PBF>Pac deal with it.

Pimp C, Feb 16, 2017

#45

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