David Tua vs Jim Jeffries

Tua.

 

Of course some of the reporters were biased - either for or against Jeffries.

My problem isn't about you using the quotes of contemporary reporters, my problem is that you ignore every single positive report about him.

 

Jeffries would have 30 lbs on Charles, Dempsey, Marciano or Tunney. He'd have around 15 lbs on prime Joe Louis. Would the wins over them also disqualify him from the conversation of the best HW?

Jeffires didn't struggle with Fitzsimmons in the first fight. He also blew out Corbett in the second fight.

Corbett wasn't "deep into his thirties". He was 33 in the first fight.

@BitPlayerVesti provided a lot of reports of Jeffries vs Sharkey II and it seems that basically nobody (other than Sharkey) disputed that Jeffries deserved a win in a close, but clear decision bout.

The first Fitz fight and the second Corbett fight were not close at the time of stoppage.

 

I believe I give Jeffries his just dues.

 

For sure you do, Mr Unbiased...

 

If Jeffries was facing a 37 years old version of those names you mentioned ,and one who hadn't fought for 2 years I think the same rating would apply.
Ditto if he was fighting a version that had not fought for 1 and a half years had won none of his last 3 fights been ko'd in one, dq'd to save him being ko'd in another .
Similarly if one of those names hadn't fought for 3 years, and had won just 1 fight in the previous 9 and a half years, and that one has an asterisk over it regarding its bonafides, I think the general consensus would be ,no, he isn't in that discussion regarding greatness. Please read this carefully and if you see any factual inaccuracies in it point them out.
Fitz drastically underestimated Jeffries in their first fight he said so himself, and their second fight imo emphatically endorses this.There is a report which I wish I could locate, that the night before the 1st Jeffries fight Fitz ,who could not handle alcohol ,was so drunk William Muldoon had to half carry him home.This is reiterated in Odd's book on Fitz when the famous story of the dressing room encounter and the interpretation of a break came up.Odd says," the Champion had been celebrating heavily the night before ."
What merit do you place on Jeffries stopping the shell of Corbett in their second fight?
Do you think it a noteworthy achievement?

 

I think that beating 37 years old Archie Moore is still a significant achievement. Not every fighter ages the same way, Fitzsimmons was one of these who aged gracefully.

I don't know, people still rank Tyson win over Holmes highly. The same with Joshua win over Klitschko.

It's not about inaccuracies, it's about selecting facts to use it for your agenda

 

Moore was NOT 37! He was either 39 or 41depending on whether you believe him or his Mother , questioned on it Archie said ,"I have given this a lot of thought and decided I must have been born 3 years old" direct quote. Agenda?
Nobody ranks Tyson's win over Holmes highly,nobody at all!
AJ's win over Wlad will for ever have the caveat ,well Wlad was 41 years old attached to it, and spuriously comparing different resumes does not change the facts of the fighter in questions record.

 

What are you talking about? I'm not pointing out the specific Moore fight, I'm just saying that beating 37 years old Moore would be a significant achievement. I'm not talking about Marciano fight, it seems that your mind is quite absorbed by Rocky

Really? In the project about lineal HW champions top 5 wins, Holmes was chosen as the third best Tyson win:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...l-ring-magazine-heavyweight-champions.648718/

"Nobody at all!"

 

Got to go I'll have to resume aggravating you later,my Saturday drinking session awaits!

 

Thanks. Tbh, I was really only interested in buying the two Johnson books at first but given the quality…now 2 books later….I may even buy the Corbett book which wasn’t orig. on my radar…I did read his autobiography THE ROAR OF THE CROWD years ago, fun read but as to being perfectly factual….perhaps not but it seemed Corbett was somewhat candid re certain events.

 

LOL. Have one for me. Actually, make it 10, whatever your poison is.

 

Actually, after beating Fitz the 2nd time around, Jeffries himself was quoted as basically saying that he knew he would eventually wear Fitz down and emerge victorious by virtue of his (Jeffries’) superior size, strength, youth and durability.

 

Sure, but Fitz is one of the greatest boxers ever P4P. I don't think any HW would beat him without superior size, strength youth and durability.

 

But that’s not the point.

The question is what attributes did Jeffries bring to the table besides those very qualities - and Jeffries himself only cited those qualities, at least as it related to his rematch with a 39 yo, 2 years inactive Fitz.

However viable Fitz was at a relatively advanced age, even Jeffries included his own age advantage as one of several determining factors.

Also, as a PFP great, while Fitz had a degree of boxing skills, it was his power of punch that mainly contributed to his rating and successes.

5 years prior, 3 years inactive Corbett (save for a 4 rd’r v Shareky) wasn’t so much bigger but he did outbox an even younger, 34 yo Fitz handily and put some serious hurt on him before tiring himself. Fitz wasn’t reaching him significantly until then.

As the rematch was described, Fitz found Jeffries far too easy to hit - even after allowing for Fitz’s own boxing skills. On the other hand, Jeffries own executions in terms of timing and distance were observed to be off in their own right.

As such, prior to the KO, Jeffries absorbed such a horrendous beating as to reflect that he wasn’t employing a lot of skill in there. Fitz on the other hand only a slight mark on him at the finish.