Cleveland Williams vs George Chuvalo: Prime for Prime

It was an incredible recovery. Miraculous really. Just six months later he was getting himself arrested again for walking around carrying a gun.

Like the article says “Clarence was once a super-physical specimen of 215lb” which can imply this is what had saved him.

and whilst it says Williams was still on the mend and only 180lb, he wasn’t doing so bad to get into trouble again was he?

 

What the ****?

 

The only troll is the person who posted this in a Chuvalo-Williams thread.

 

it all depends though doesn’t it. Miles on the clock.

After a good 12-0 run Miteff was knocked out by DeJohn. And Williams, after 33-1 record was knocked out by Satterfield. I see a comparison here. Two prospects get their bubble burst.

However, unlike miteff, Williams took a couple of years out after his knockout loss. he joined the army then was relaunched all over again and nursed along until he met Sonny Liston. Another crushing loss albeit one that apparently became the making of him.

By comparison After Miteff had his bubble burst against DeJohn his handlers cashed in on him taking Alex on the road as the bad guy taking on all the hometown stars. He fought often and cut often. He fought Zora Foley twice, George Chuvalo twice, Eddie Machen, Henry cooper, Bob Cleroux, Nino Valdes, Cleveland Williams and Muhammad Ali.

How many wins does Williams score against this bunch?

Another uncalled for smear. Take that back. You know better than this.

 

I think most people have problem with Cleveland's career before the accident, not after.

 

Ron Lyle was stabbed. He lost a life-threatening amount of blood but was saved by transfusions and recovered. He didn't suffer anything like the massive injuries Williams did.

 

That's the guy claiming the so called Williams "fixation" and fawning is "more than a tad bit gay"? What the actual? Fawning?

The above certainly blows any Williams "fixation" out of the water. As gets said in here, there's "levels" and the above is, lets say, pinnacle/stratosphere level.

 

You surmise wrong. It's the sum of the parts. You've named most of them yourself. The awe a couple of opponents held him in. The comments on his power, speed. His excellent effort vs a rampant Liston, forcing him to renegotiate the terms of their battle. The writings and articles from real time. The feeling, from back in the day, that he was somewhat avoided for a period.....etc

Being big, muscular and athletic? Of a size a bit ahead of his time? That's par of the sum, absolutely.

 

Quality info as always. Thanks.

 

OK, you want something more relevant to the topic at hand?

I think you have some explaining to do regarding your extreme change of opinions.

In particular I'd like an explanation for the part I bolded where you acknowledge the severity of Williams injuries and how it impacted him, but are now attempting to downplay it and dismiss it along with your fellow troll (who you were ironically arguing with in the posts I quoted in one of your rare moments of lucidity).

 

Dubblechin be like https://external-preview.redd.it/p3...bp&s=6755087711695e855a21f02df5b783c3facc345b

 

Cute but what actually happened, is Williams received his call up papers BEFORE the Satterfield bout. You're acting like he quit before the loss.

Nursed along? He'd been trying to get more fights with rated contenders but few seemed willing to get in the ring with him.

Let's see.

Folley: Terrible match-up for Folley, who doesn't have the chin to endure Williams punches. I favor Williams.

Chuvalo: Deserved to be 0-2 over Williams victim Miteff, and was rocked, and hurt by a literally shot Williams by his own admission.

Eddie Machen: Drew with Williams on 2 cards, with the third judge along with the majority of those in attendance thinking Williams was the clear winner.

Henry Cooper: Levels. Cooper was a fringe contender and by his own admission, wasn't even man enough to meet Liston in the ring. Williams was an elite. Cooper lost to Williams' victims in Rischer, and was nearly knocked out by Miteff.

Cleroux: Just wasn't that good. Had one win over a ranked fighter. A disputed SD against Chuvalo. Lost to a much inferior fighter than Williams in Dejohn. Williams beats him.

Nino Valdez: Valdez was past his prime at that point, and already been knocked out by Machen two years earlier. I'd favor Williams over even the best Valdez, and this version even more empathetically.

Cleveland Williams: .....

Muhammad Ali: Ali was very green at that point in his career, and according to Dundee himself steered clear of Williams around this time.

I could bring up countless posts to make my case, but I feel like everyone knows you for what you are at this point, and if not, one can go look just a few posts above and see your laughable implication that because Williams got arrested 6 months after his shooting, he must've not been hurt to bad.

 

WOW!!!!!!

 

While people may think they were both past it when they fought, Chuvalo not significantly, there’s a massive difference between 34 and 38 and Chuvalo beat Quarry round about that time, 34 can still be prime for heavyweights as long as they haven’t taken too much punishment, which guys like Chuvalo didn’t, whilst he got hit, guy’s like him knew how to see punches coming, meaning he never took much damage, and he was still winning consistently, only losing to top competition even at that point, so I believe he still had a decent amount left, Williams on the other hand had been literally shot, lost like 50lbs+ and was losing a lot of fights consistently by that point.
Prime for prime going by the eye test, Williams looks more polished, is bigger, stronger, faster and hits harder, I see him taking a competitive decision, but his better technique and ability sees him land more significant punches to steal it.

 

Cleveland gets talked about a lot, hardly for the most interesting aspect of him… that he was a fruit loop. Interesting guy to read about, his fights are hit or miss IMO @swagdelfadeel you might find this interesting, maybe you read it, probably you did - anyway, Willie Pastrano and Ali once pranked Williams who according to “John Garfield” was a humourless character by tying his glove laces to the ropes before he was about to spar.