Floyd Patterson would have sucked in any other era

I think Patterson would probably be a top 5 heavyweight in every era before 1980.

 

If Braddock can beat Baer IMHO - so can Patterson.

 

I stand by what I said.

D'Amato sheltered him for a reason. He didn't have the killer instinct needed to survive in a tough era and his handlers knew it.

A couple of posters have said he would have struggled from the 80's onward. I think he has a better chance in that era and subsequent eras than he does in the eras before him. He would certainly be a player in the fat-and-slow, 12-round era of Heavyweights.

Patterson's best wins are against Moore who was twice his age, his rematches with Johansson - a handpicked opponent who knocked him out unexpectedly and a washed up Eddie Machen who he should've fought years earlier.

There is no reason whatsoever to rank him among the best heavyweights.

I am genuinely shocked that Jake thinks he has a shot against Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney and Max Schmeling, that's surreal to me.

 

The Great Jack Johnson's reputation must be in serious disarray if Patterson is now seen as a match for him smh.

 

Cus D'Amato had so much faith in Patterson's ability that he matched him up against a debutante for his 2nd title defense and handpicked all his opponents until Patterson insisted on fighting a legitimate contender. We all know what happened afterwards.

D'Amato wasn't confident enough to match Patterson up against Machen, Folley, Williams. Why would he match him up against any of the fighters you mentioned. Let's use sense lads.

 

I was never big on FP. To be fair, he was fighting in the wrong division. I do not compare him with any of the greats at heavyweight.
I still say Marciano would have KO'ed him had they fought, (yes I'm aware Patterson knocked out Moore faster than Rocky did, but that doesn't matter). D'Amato was shrude in how he matched his fighters and he would never have matched him with Rocky. There is no way he would have taken Rock's punch.

People talk about padding records, some of those guys Patterson and Torres were matched with on the way up were the biggest softies on the planet, (Torres is another one I'm not high on, but that's for another topic I guess).

 

There is a solid argument for Floyd beating Ellis and Quarry, and he also beat Chuvalo and Bonavena as well so combine that with his wins over Archie, Ingo and Machen and his resume is pretty solid.

I think Patterson has a good chance against Johnson, Tunney and Schmeling. I also think Dempsey would be all wrong for him though.

 

Not sure how arguable wins against a placeholder champion, a couple of ne'er do wells and a human punching-bag equates to Patterson being a match for Johnson, Tunney and Schmeling. If D'Amato was too scared to match him up with Williams, Folley and the others he definitely isn't matching him up against those guys (and rightly so). In the words of his rival Mahomet he has but two chances: slim and none.

 

While we're on the subject: who did Chuvalo ever beat to be considered a good heavyweight?

 

The ‘who has he beaten to prove he can beat (blank)’ argument can be turned against you as well though.

Who has Tunney beaten at heavyweight to prove he can beat Patterson? A washed Dempsey?

Who has Johnson beaten at heavyweight to prove he can easily dispatch Patterson? A 19 year old Sam McVea? A rookie Jeannette? His best win at heavyweight was Denver Ed Martin, and according to the descriptions of his style he doesn’t fight like Floyd at all.

Unlike Schmeling, these two haven’t faced a heavyweight with the combination of skill and speed on the level of Patterson, or with the style of Patterson. There’s no reason to pick them against him in confidence, but there’s also not much of a reason to pick Patterson against them in confidence either. It’s an anomaly

 

Doug Jones was in the top 5 when Chuvalo beat him in 1964, he was even ranked no. 2 in 1963. Not an otherworldly feat, but enough to prove to me that George was a decent heavy. I’ve seen some debate on him beating Bonavena as well

 

Patterson was a top 10 heavyweight from 1956 past his last fight in 1972. The rare times he exited the 10 he worked his way right back in. That's 16 years almost always spent as a top 10 heavyweight. He was often 1-5 or so.

In the big scheme of things that's absurd and it's fair to say his top 10 longevity exceeded one era.

To say a player of this calibre would have sucked in any other era is laughable really.

 

You've got more faith in Patterson than his own trainer did.

A washed Dempsey is better than a prime Patterson. He still had enough in the tank to win against Sharkey (who is also better than Patterson). I hold Tunney's wins over Heeney and Risko over anything Patterson did in his prime.

In any case one only has to observe the footage of Tunney with a critical eye to see that Patterson couldn't have troubled him very much. Superior footspeed and footwork, more skilled in every facet of boxing, a consummate ring general: more seasoned, more tried and tested over different divisions, taller and heavier (or around the same weight), I can go on.

Patterson wasn't much older than those guys when he won the title. Are we going to forget Johnson's wins against Fireman Jim Flynn, Frank Childs, Jack Bonner, Jim Johnson, Frank Moran and Tommy Burns? Hell even the washed-up Jim Jeffries showed more courage and heart in that fight than Patterson did his entire career. What does Patterson have stylistically that could trouble Johnson? You can't even make the size argument here because Johnson was bigger! Johnson would mash him up up-close the same way Liston did. How you can make a case for a soft, overprotected fighter like Patterson over a hardened pro like Johnson is beyond me. One of us must be dreaming.

What does Patterson have that could trouble any of those guys stylistically? All he had was fast (though often wild and inaccurate) combos, a Gazelle left hook and the ability to bob and weave.

Do you think either of those guys would've taken eleven rounds to dispatch of Brian London? Six rounds to take care of the debutante Radamacher? Twelve rounds to get rid of Roy Harris? Ten for Tommy Jackson?

Those are not high-calibre opponents and you know it. Lets keep our heads on straight.

 

He lost to an 11-4 Eduardo Corletti right before getting his title shot.