Which 1970 s Heavyweight Is Far Too Overrated, IYO?

Joe Frazier fought his entire career with compromised to semi-blindness in one eye. A 204 pound, half blind swarmer, he was one of the top P4P heavyweights that ever lived ...Foreman was one of the most naturally talented fighters of all time ... his size, strength, power, chin and jab were A plus .. he never fully polished in his first career but he was a dangerous man. If he fought today he'd be close to Ngannou size but a true heavyweight fighter. I can go on but the point is made. I may not feel the 70's was a great as some but it was a very deep and talented era.

 

Tyson Fury is like this. Much is made about how he's the most skilled super Heavyweight ever when most of his fights come down to using his physical advantages, rough housing and slugging to get W's.

Ditto with Ali, who clinched, slugged and out chinned people lot more than you'd think if you only heard people talk about him and never actually watched. Skilled for a heavyweight, not close to being one of the most skilled fighters of all time like he's often touted.

 

I could easily see someone like Ray Mercer, Oliver McCall or Tony Tucker beating Shavers.

 

I vigorously have to disagree. Ali’s presence & impact on their careers is circumstantial. They’d all have made names for themselves in any era. The proof? They made names for themselves, being Champions & ranked contenders, in the most competitive era. The understanding of Frazier in particular shown here is infantile in its simplicity.

 

Shavers would actually be my pick for this thread. He is given a lot more credit than he deserves. He was a big punch & nothing else.

 

I think Tony Tucker is a top 5 for the 80s. And I would pick Shavers in his era over Mercer and Oliver McCall in theres.

 

The main reason Frazier is considered a top ten heavyweight is because of his victory over Ali take that away and his resume is pretty weak

 

There are several counter points I could raise but I’ll just reference a few.

The two fighters who had the most success against Ali, Frazier and Norton, earned their stripes separately and in their own right also.

Norton beat Young and an even older Norton also fought a razor thin close fight against a near prime and future ATG Larry Holmes.

I don’t see circular reasoning - rather, Ali was a justified benchmark against whom many other fighters could be measured.

There were a number of fighters who fell well short of that line in the sand - and those that didn’t proved themselves to be equally capable fighters across the board.

 

Frazier was unbeaten going into that fight. And the trilogy with Ali was pretty much a draw because the finale was won because Fraziers corner threw in the towel seconds before Alis did. A sneeze could have flipped that trilogy in Fraziers favor.

Fraziers resume is brief not weak.

 

They weren't overrated. None of them were perfect, as nobody is, and there was a lot of rocks-scissors-paper. But that is, after all, what makes a great era...a lot of guys who can beat each other.

 

Name a single good win that he has besides Ali.

 

In the late 60s there was a 8 man WBA tournament to name Alis successor. Frazier beat 3 of the 4 semifinalists in Ellis, Quarry and Bonavena. He also beat LHW champ Bob Foster and future SHW champ Buster Mathis. Theres also Commonwealth, European and Australian champ Bugner.

So thats 6 right there and you got a few others like Ramos.

 

I don't think any of those were particularly great wins, Quarry and Bob Foster were barely heavyweights and would be cruiserweights at best today and lost to all the good heavyweights they faced. Ellis and Bonavena also weren't anything special and Ellis was a small heavyweight as well. Buster Mathis while large pretty much lost to every good fighter he faced and Bugner just had a good chin. For the time they were okay wins but I feel like they kinda don't stand the test of time compared to modern heavyweights.

 

Strongly disagree about Quarry losing to every good heavy he faced. He beat Patterson, Mac Foster, Shavers, and Lyle. It would take very strict criteria for those not to be good fighters.

 

If you're that picky about elite wins having Ali as your only elite win is just fine in my book. Champs are elite wins, multiple time title contenders are usually elite wins.

Foremans 90s run means they do stand the test of time.