ATG HW: No.1 Ali ; No.2 Louis ; No.3 Usyk ; Can it be like this?

I disagree right off the top. I rank Joe Louis as my #1 ATG.

 

No case is to be made. The big wins aren't there, and before anyone says he fought who was in front of him, he absolutely did not, spending seven years without a unification or a #1 contender.

As for the question, Usyk will always have a complicated legacy due to some of his career being at cruiser. If he sticks around a couple of years, beating the Parkers and Kabeyals, and remaining undefeated, some people will make the case that he is #3.

 

Holmes is easily no. 3

 

Holmes' top ten wins, as voted on by the community, don't really stand up to a number of other greats. No case is to be made for him as #3, Further down the top ten of all time, sure.

USYK
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/usyks-top-ten-wins-as-of-7-19-25.739181/
Fury 1 3
Briedis 3
Joshua 1 3
Gassiev 3
Fury II 3
Joshua II 3
Dubois II 3
Bellew 3
Dubois 1 2
Chisora 2
Glowacki 1
Hunter 1

WLADKLIT
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/wladimir-klitschko-top-ten-wins.730677/
Byrd I 6
Haye 6
Chambers 6
McCline 5
Chagaev 5
Ibragimov 5
Thompson I 5
Peter I 5
Povetkin 5
Byrd II 4
Brewster 2
Pulev 3
Peter II 1
Jennings 1
Brock 1

LEWIS
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/lennox-lewis-top-ten-wins-name-em.732855/
Evander Holyfield2 11
David Tua 11
Hassem Rahman 11
Razor Ruddcok 11
Vitali Kiltschko 10
Frank Bruno 9
Tony Tucker 7
Michael Grant 6
Tommy Morrison 6
Ray Mercer 6
Andrew Golota 9
Mike Tyson 5
Holyfield 1 4
Briggs 1
Botha 1

HOLYFIELD
evander-holyfield-top-ten-name-em.733820
Riddick Bowe II 7
Tyson I 7
Foreman 7
Moorer II 7
Holmes 7
Douglas 6
Mercer 5
Dokes 5
Qawi 1 5
Tyson II 4
Ruiz I 3
Rahmen 2
Cooper 2
Qawi 2 1
Thomas 1
DeLeon 1

TYSON
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/iron-mike-tyson-top-ten-wins-name-em.732337/
Trevor Berbick 15
Michael Spinks 15
Larry Holmes 14
Tony Tucker 14
Razor Ruddock I 12
Carl Williams 11
Pinklon Thomas 11
Bonecrusher Smith 9
Tyrell Biggs 9
Razor Ruddock II 8
Tony Tubbs 7
Frank Bruno I 7
Bruno II 4Marvis Frazier 3
Alex Stewart 3
Ribalta 2
Seldon 2
Quick Tillis 1
Buster Douglas 1
Golata 1

BOWE
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/riddick-bowe-top-ten-wins.732600/
Holyfield 1 10
Herbie Hide 10
Tony Tubbs 10
Jorge Luis Gonzales 9
Holyfield III 9
Michael Dokes 8
Jesse Ferguson 8
Larry Donald 7
Bruce Seldon 7
Biggs 6
Cooper 5
Andrew Golota I 3
Andrew Golata II 3
Thomas 3
Coetzer 1

HOLMES
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/name-holmes-ten-best-wins.719448/
Norton-5
Witherspoon-5
Shavers 2-5
Cooney -5
Berbick-5
Leon Spinks-5
Bonecrusher-4
Mercer-4
Shavers 1-4
Weaver-4
Ali-1
Williams-1
Bey-1
Cobb-1

SPINKS
michael-spinks-top-ten-wins.729753
Holmes I 3
Eddie Musafa Muhammed 3
Dwight Muhammed Qawi 3
Marvin Johnson 3
Gerry Cooney 3
Yanqui Lopez 3
Murray Sutherland II 2
Mustapha Wasajja 2
Holmes II 1
Johnny Davis 1
Stephan Taangstaad 1
Vonzell Johnson 1
Eddie Davis 1

ALI
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/muhammad-ali-top-ten-victories-name-em.732074/
George Foreman 11
Sonny Liston I 11
Joe Frazier II 11
Ken Norton II 10
Joe Frazier III 10
Ernie Terrell 9
Floyd Patterson 1 8
Sonny Liston II 7
Ron Lyle 7
Jerry Quarry I 6
Zora Folley 5
Jimmy Ellis 4
Quary II 3
Floyd Patterson II 1
Cleveland Williams 1
Jimmy Young 2
Ernie Shavers 2
Bugner 1 1
Norton III 1

FRAZIER
joe-frazier-top-ten.732000
Ali 6
Ellis 1 6
Quarry 1 6
Bonavena 2 6
Quarry 2 6
Bonavena 1 6
Chuvalo 6
Bugner 6
Mathis 6
Machen 4
Bob Foster 2

FOREMAN
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...re-george-foremans-top-ten-wins.728980/page-3
Joe Frazier 1-12
Ken Norton-12
Michael Moorer-12
Ron Lyle-12
George Chavulo-12
Joe Frazier II-10
Gerry Cooney-9
Bert Cooper-9
Alex Stewart-6
Dwight Qawi-5
Gregorio Peralta 1- 5
Gregorio Peralta II- 4
Chuck Wepner-3
Shannon Briggs*- 3
Lou Savarese-2
Adilson Rodriguez-2
Jose Roman-1
John Dino Denis-1

LISTON
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/sonny-listons-top-ten-wins.731765/
Patterson 1 3
Patterson 2 3
Folley 3
Machen 3
Williams 1 3
Williams 2 3
Valdez 3
Harris 3
Clark 2
DeJohn 2
Chuck Wepner 1
Amos Lincoln 1

MARCIANO
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/rocky-marciano-top-ten-wins-name-em.736403/
Walcott 1 4
Moore 4
Charles II 4
La Starza II 4
Louis 4
Rex Layne 4
Charles 1 3
Walcott II 3
Matthews 3
Cockell 3
Savold 2
La Starza 1
Reynolds 1

LOUIS
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/joe-louis-top-ten-wins-name-em.734964/
Max Baer 11
Max Schmeling 11
Billy Conn I 10
Primo Carnera 9
Joe Walcott II 9
Buddy Baer II 9
Jim Braddock 8
Lou Nova 7
Bob Pastor II 6
John Henry Lewis 6
Arturo Godoy II 4
Tommy Farr 3
Jimmy Bivins 3
Jack Sharkey 2
Nathan Mann 2
Abe Simon II 2
Paola Uzcudchin 1
Bob Pastor II 2
Joe Walcott I 1
Buddy Baer 1 1
Lee Savold 1

 

To list Usyk here is comical TBH

 

A) You have misunderstood. Perhaps that is my fault. These were merely threads delineating the top ten of various champs. They appear in this thread roughly chronologically.

B) There is an extant thread were about 70% of the community thinks Usyk is top ten. FYI.

 

If we look at the record of champion heavyweight boxers in title fights then:

• Joe Louis - Rank: 1 - 27-1-0
• Muhammad Ali - Rank: 2 - 22-3-0
• Wladimir Klitschko - Rank: 3 - 20-3-0
• Larry Holmes - Rank: 4 - 20-5-0
• Lennox Lewis - Rank: 5 - 15-2-1
• Vitali Klitschko - Rank: 6 - 12-2-0
• Evander Holyfield - Rank: 7 - 10-6-1
• Mike Tyson - Rank: 8 - 10-2-0
• Ezzard Charles - Rank: 9 - 9-1-0
• Anthony Joshua - Rank: 10 - 9-4-0
• Jack Dempsey - Rank: 11 - 6-2-0
• Oleksandr Usyk - Rank: 12 - 6-0-0
• Rocky Marciano - Rank: 13 - 5-0-0
• George Foreman - Rank: 14 - 5-2-0
• Tyson Fury - Rank: 15 - 5-2-1
• Floyd Patterson - Rank: 16 - 5-3-0
• Joe Frazier - Rank: 17 - 4-2-0
• Gene Tunney - Rank: 18 - 3-0-1
• Riddick Bowe - Rank: 19 - 3-1-0
• Tim Witherspoon - Rank: 20 - 3-3-0
• Sonny Liston - Rank: 21 - 2-1-0
• Jack Johnson - Rank: 22 - 2-1-2
• Pinklon Thomas - Rank: 23 - 2-2-0
• Max Schmeling - Rank: 24 - 2-2-0

* Deontay Wilder - Rank: 25 - 10-2-1 Because the first seven shouldn't have counted and then he should have lost to Fury instead of drawing.
* Nikolae Valuev - Rank: 26 - 6-2-0 That **** was comical.
* John Ruiz - Rank: 27 - 4-5-3 What even?

 

I like your posts. Your extremely knowledgeable. I dont always agree but I always gane something from your posts.
I personally dont have the real high opinion on Usyk like most here do. Hes a very good boxer with holes in his game like everyone else. I share the Ukrainian background with him as both my parents are half Ukrainian which is pretty kool. I met him and he was very friendly. I dont have him in my top ten.

 

The ones where the legend loses his last fight and retires aren't worth as much. In those cases, it matters less what they were doing before than what they accomplished after the loss. Tim Witherspoon wasn't much of a scalp for Larry Holmes at the time, but it got better with age; because Witherspoon goes on to beat Tillis, Page, Smith, Tubbs, and Bruno. You could argue that Witherspoon deserved to beat Holmes. That would have been his reign and pretty similar to Mike Tyson's first.

Terry Norris was a really good fighter but his victory over Ray Leonard is next to worthless. The Donald Curry victory may be worth more because Leonard should have lost in his Hearns rematch just a little before and he had no wins after fighting Norris. If he was a musician then he was on his retirement tour. After Barney Ross beat Tony Canzoneri, Tony went on to beat Kid Chocolate, Baby Arizmendi, Lou Ambers, and Jimmy McLarnin. It's not just putting a string of wins together after a loss. It's also about who they beat after you beat them.

Did they avenge the loss? That's a pretty good indicator of still having gas in the tank. After Jimmy McLarnin beat Barny Ross, Ross avenged the loss then beat Ceferino Garcia too. That's why it's always better to get good fighters in their primes. Tommy Hearns in 1981 is a much better scalp than Tommy Hearns in 1989. With that said, Marvin Hagler looked great in 1987 when he lost to Leonard and retired. He could have fought another two years and probably could have taken Julian Jackson, Mike McCallum, or Michael Nunn in that time. He was only 33.

 

Nothing wrong with any of that!

 

Just because Usyk seems to have a big fan base here doesn’t make his 3 wins at heavyweight against champions impressive. Usyk’s resume doesn’t stand a chance against the best heavyweights in history. Maybe it will, but his 3 opponents won’t

 

All-time lists are subjective; there's no right or wrong answer. I'd have Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield and Lewis all above Usyk. I don't think a heavyweight with eight fights, four of which were against Joshua and Dubois, should be at the top of an ATG list that dates back over 100 years.

Joshua has been a shell of himself since Ruiz, and he was always overrated anyway. Then there's Fury, who got knocked down by a UFC fighter and nearly lost a 10-round decision and has spent much of his prime in the pub. Dubois has no ring IQ and got completely outboxed by Joe Joyce; the idea that two wins against him is some sort of benchmark of ATG status is laughable.

Cruiserweight top 3, no doubt, but his HW resume is thin. I'd argue even someone like Ike Ibeabuchi has a better HW resume than Usyk. Beating the same conveyor belt of overrated British fighters doesn't put you ahead of Lennox, Ali or Louis in my book.