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Mayweather is overrated

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by THE BLADE, Jan 23, 2009.

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imp4pdabest Guest

THE BLADE said: ↑

He is a HOF and very good fighter but not in the league of Hopkins,Jones and Toney.

- Too much credit is given to his unbeaten record. People think that because he has not lost so far, he is unbeatable. IMO he lost twice to Castillo.

- He retired at a very young age and left behind him many challenges. To
be considerer an ATG, his career is too short. He did not fight Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, Pacquaio, Hatton (rematch with a competent referee) ...
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Now I know you're just joking.

imp4pdabest, Jan 23, 2009

#151

jim22uk Active Member Full Member

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mayweather is overated you got to be kidding i think hes underated most people have him maybe top 30 atg i have him top 5

jim22uk, Jan 23, 2009

#152

bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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jim22uk said: ↑

mayweather is overated you got to be kidding i think hes underated most people have him maybe top 30 atg i have him top 5
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atschatschatschatschatschatschatschatsch

bladerunner, Jan 23, 2009

#153
imp4pdabest Guest

bladerunner said: ↑

atschatschatschatschatschatschatschatsch
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Thats a fair statement! atsch yourself

imp4pdabest, Jan 23, 2009

#154

jim22uk Active Member Full Member

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bladerunner said: ↑

atschatschatschatschatschatschatschatsch
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what sugests hes not people love to rank boxers from the dawm of time over floyd, i bet in 20 years most people will have him at least top10.

jim22uk, Jan 23, 2009

#155
Badlok Boxing Junkie Full Member

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I dont want to judge Mayweather because he accomplish some great things , but i still got a sour taste in my mouth (i dont talk about my girlfriend there) about is legacy.
as an fan of boxing i dont like to see a phenom like him sit at home without fighting when he could give us so much entertaining fights.

i dont really like Floyd from his shittalking but you need to respect the boxer !
I will appreciate if PBF comeback and answer the question he left when he decided to retire.

Badlok, Jan 23, 2009

#156
DINAMITA Guest

DINAMITA said: ↑

I disagree. I rank him below Jones and Hopkins, but I rank him above Toney - and I'm a big Toney fan.

Recently, I have been re-evaluating Floyd Mayweather and his career.

I think he was a very special fighter at superfeatherweight, I even think he could beat Julio Cesar Chavez there, I rate him as one of the top two ever at 130lbs along with the great Alexis Arguello. His win over Corrales was one of the most clinical displays of brilliance of the decade. The guy has all the skills necessary to be justifiably called an ATG/elite boxer IMO.

I think he lost to Castillo the first, but beat him the second - and, crucially, Mayweather's win was clearer and more convincing. I am not one of these immature new-age fanboys who places too much emphasis and importance on a zero. So he lost to Castillo, so what. Mayweather was young, had just moved up a division, and Castillo was a very very good lightweight. He got revenge by clearly beating Castillo, so for me, that loss is not a huge black mark against him.

However, I do agree with the thread-starter about Mayweather's retirement and longevity. I think this has a huge impact on his all-time standing.

I recently posted my all-time top 100. I had Sugar Ray Leonard around 14th I think. Do I think SRL is only the 14th most skilled/talented boxer ever?? No way. For me he is right up there with guys like Robinson, Armstrong and Duran as one of the absolute elite, cream of the cream, I view him as one of the top two or three in all of history. But viewing someone in terms of ability is not the same as viewing them in terms of overall greatness, of pound-for-pound career quality. Leonard slides to 14, into my 'second tier' purely because of longevity and because his resume is so shallow. A 40-fight career. After his 4 big wins (Duran,Hearns,Benitez,past-prime Hagler), there is not much of any real value. These may be some of the best wins in history, and he may have been one of the best boxers in history, but there is not enough substance to justify naming Leonard as one of the top level elite, alongside guys like Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong and Ezzard Charles, who went to the well again and again and again against the very best opposition around for years and years and years.

I have to apply the same thinking when it comes to Floyd Mayweather. Consider the substance of his career.

Despite all his ability at 130 (I don't think he ever demonstrated the same ability as effectively above this weight despite some stellar performances), he had a 39-fight career.

His best wins are Corrales (as I have said, superb win & performance), Castillo II (also excellent), and... a past-prime De La Hoya? a Hatton who found 147 difficult even against Collazo? Zab 'Big Fight Loser' Judah?

I know the Floyd fans will hate me for saying it, but this is not an ATG resume - even allowing for the times in which he was fighting.

It is not as good a resume as Hopkins's or Jones's or Toney's or Pacquiao's or De La Hoya's or Barrera's or Morales's. It is better than Mosley's or Calzaghe's, but still, it is not an ATG resume by any standard.

I think this is a little harsh though.

To say another referee would have made a difference v Hatton is stupid. A rematch would be stupid. Mayweather is simply a cut above Ricky and always will be IMO. And I don't think he can be blamed for not fighting Cotto, as for all we know that fight could have been on the cards for this year but Cotto lost to Margarito.

Had Floyd fought Tszyu at 140 before Hatton did, and fought Mosley and Williams and Margarito, his historical standing would be vastly improved, as I think he would've beaten them all.

But like Leonard (who would most likely have beaten Pryor in the early 80s and McCallum in the mid 80s etc etc), Floyd suffers from not doing what he could have done, and should have done.

So, although I don't think he is overrated in terms of ability (except by silly fanboys, of which there are a few on this forum), I do think he is generally overrated with regard to his overall career and his historical standing.

In 30-40 years, will people still remember how skilled he was, or will they look at a 39-fight career with the only two great wins being Corrales and Castillo I, and say his res is too thin to justify ATG status?

I fear it may be the latter. Which is a shame. Great talent.

:bbb
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I'm bumping this in the hope that BigReg will respond to it. I'd like to hear from the intelligent side of the pro-Floyd-ATG camp.

(I personally believe only the top 50 fighters of history deserve the title "ALL-TIME GREAT". I had Mayweather around 35th-ish when I did my own p4p top 100, but as I said at the start of the above post, I am re-evaluating just now for all of the reasons stated above. Is Mayweather a top 50 OAT, an ATG, or have I overrated him by giving him that placing? This is the question the above post is trying to address)

DINAMITA, Jan 23, 2009

#157

Damo1712 Boss Full Member

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39-0 is a good record but its not enough fights to be considered an ATG let alone the best ever, its a shame the whole promotion game has stopped fighters fighting 10 to 12 fights a year

Damo1712, Jan 23, 2009

#158
Pimp C Too Much Motion

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Damo1712 said: ↑

39-0 is a good record but its not enough fights to be considered an ATG let alone the best ever, its a shame the whole promotion game has stopped fighters fighting 10 to 12 fights a year
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If PBF isn't an ATG then who is from this era?:deal

Pimp C, Jan 23, 2009

#159
imp4pdabest Guest

Damo1712 said: ↑

39-0 is a good record but its not enough fights to be considered an ATG let alone the best ever, its a shame the whole promotion game has stopped fighters fighting 10 to 12 fights a year
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I dont care if you came and got a fighter with 0 pro fights and he came and beat 5 ATG's that were in their prime and then retired, he who only has 5 fights is an ATG. and besides, PBF was an ATG when he was only 24

imp4pdabest, Jan 23, 2009

#160
mattress Boxing Addict Full Member

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Orion100 said: ↑

I don't see how a Cotto fan could question anybody's toughness.
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are you and that arse 'moneymayweather' the same person????

mattress, Jan 23, 2009

#161

asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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he is not overrated..nobody ranks him top 50 atg

asero, Jan 23, 2009

#162
smitty_son408 J ust E njoy T his S hit Full Member

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asero said: ↑

he is not overrated..nobody ranks him top 50 atg
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:-( .....speechless

smitty_son408, Jan 23, 2009

#163
Circa Skate And Destroy Full Member

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floyd's elusiveness and counters (where some of boxing fans called it running) makes him excting for me imo =D

Circa, Jan 23, 2009

#164
AceNguyen Well-Known Member Full Member

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Damo1712 said: ↑

39-0 is a good record but its not enough fights to be considered an ATG let alone the best ever, its a shame the whole promotion game has stopped fighters fighting 10 to 12 fights a year
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So guys like Joe Frazier and Kostya Tszyu aren't all time greats?

AceNguyen, Jan 23, 2009

#165

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