Prime for prime, best heavyweight ever - head to head

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by cmj25, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    How do people rate Jack Johnson H2H?
     
  2. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lewis did have a better chin than people gave and give hime credit for. My only problem with this record is that people give him too much credit for those revenge matches. First off, he never should have lost to Rachman, who was nothing more than a journey men. Second, the win against MCcall was one of the most anticlimatic in the history of the sport. MCcall was hopped up on coke and for all intents and purposes had a mental breakdown in the ring. And yet, Lewis could not hurt him, could not knock him down and could not even get him to protect himselve. Let us not forget, that fight was officially stopped because McCall would not protect him. Now, Lewis has a fine record in my book, but I cannot comprehend how or why he gets so much credit for his revenge bouts....make absolutely not sense. :rofl
     
  3. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's a viscious circle, isn't it, friend? After all, it's only your opinion that it's idoicy, and since you're opinion doesn't mean anything more than anyone else's...
     
  4. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Because he beat every fighter he ever stepped into the ring with, that's why. He gets credit because he came back from 2 stoppage defeats so easily in terms of beating those guys.
     
  5. cmj25

    cmj25 Member Full Member

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    I'm not enough of a boxing historian, but I've heard about how he was a master technically and defensively.
     
  6. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    I didn't say it did. I respect his opinion if he says he thinks Tyson can match Ali's foot-speed and exploit his lack of technical defense. But it's not an 'opinion' about Ali using the 'rope-a-dope'. It's a fact that he didn't use it in his prime. That would be like me saying Joe Frazier was an outside-fighter and master-boxer and saying 'well, it's my opinion'.
     
  7. Rudyard

    Rudyard **** How You Feel!! HOE! banned

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    Rahman I agree...IMO I think he lost focused and got caught...Hell, anybody would have gotten KO'ed if they ate that punch from Rahamn...Perfectly placed and it caught Lewis.

    McCall I have to disagree...Is it Lewis fault that McCall flipped the hell out?:lol: If I'm not mistaked...McCall had one hell of a chin himself...Who has ever KO"ed McCall??? So for you to sit here and say Lewis should have KO'ed McCall is kinda outlandish dont ya think?
     
  8. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    Yep. He had the classic old-style stance of the likes of Louis/Burley/Saddler etc in keeping his head off-center and out of the line of his opponent's offense. He could slip and counter the jab better than any HW in history, and was defensively savvy and very strong.
     
  9. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's true. But in my humble opinion, if Tyson had retired after the Douglas fight he would probably be considered a top ten heavyweight. He absolutely decimated his legacy when he was well past his prime against guys like Holyfield and Lewis. Fact is, Tyson was a phenom, and most phenoms excel for a short time and then burn out...like Hendrix or Mozart or Keats, etc. By the time Tyson was 30 he was washed up. That why likely do to the fact that his style was entirely built on speed and power. He was not a particularly good boxer. Not much of an amateur. But he was awkward and fast and had a style that was suited for the pros.
     
  10. Henke67

    Henke67 One of the 45% Full Member

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    H2H or based on accomplishments, it's still Muhammad Ali.
     
  11. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It would be outlandish if that was what I actually said. What I said was that he gets too much credit for that win. Of course, it was not his fault that McCall went crazy or whatever the heck happened to him, but that win is often cited as one of his best. Why? :patsch It was one of the worst fights I have ever seen. And, by the way, the first stoppage against McCall was not premature. Watch the replay. Lewis was done...end of story.
     
  12. itrymariti

    itrymariti CaƱas! Full Member

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    You what?
     
  13. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But he didn't do it easily. He lost to one guy that an all time great should not have lost to (Rachman), then he won on a technicality, i.e., a coked up fighter had a mental breakdown in the ring. Of course, that was not Lennox's fault, but have you seen that fight. I could have won that fight. The man across from him refused to throw a punch and would not raise his arms to protect himself. Oh yeah, he was also visibly crying. I think people forget that fight because I often he people talking about how Lewis whipped McCall's ass. Sorry, not true. :huh
     
  14. bkamins

    bkamins Boxing Addict Full Member

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    RIF. Reading is Fundamental. :D
     
  15. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    '67 Ali would have had a problem with Tyson's left hook...