Hypothetical situation...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Amsterdam, Aug 22, 2007.

  1. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am assessing Hopkins on his actual ability at this point in time, rather than his victories several years ago.
     
  2. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    The first decision against Hopkins was a joke. Bernard clearly won that fight. Sure it was close, but Hopkins should have gotten the nod - and WOULD have were it not for Taylor's HBO backing, and Hopkins unpopularity with the boxing establishment. Then there never would have even been a second fight. That one was somewhat more competitive, but I thought Hopkins should have gotten the nod. And THEN he gets another gift draw against Wright. Doesn't anyone sense a pattern here??

    A "gift decision" is not quite the same as a "robbery." I wouldn't call these decisions "robberies," but they were close figths that should have gone to the other guy. One gift you might be able to excuse, but three??? C'mon - an HBO contract is the gift that keeps on giving for Taylor. :yep
     
  3. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    His victory over Tarver (the lineal champion and therefore the best fighter at that weight) was less than a year ago.
     
  4. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    What CHJ is specifically saying is that Tarver beats Jones and gets the title, then fights Johnson and shares 1-1 with him, which is fair. But then he avoids young challengers like Paul Briggs and others, takes on Jones yet again...

    See the pattern? These older guys fight within their circle here, despite holding onto the top title.

    I can't pick any of them over the younger crop, except for maybe Johnson because he's remained fresh and even then he's just competitive.
     
  5. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    There is no way Cross_Trainer believes the lineal champ is the best at their weight by default.
     
  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Cross_Trainer believes that in the case of the lineal (not just a few belts) title, China_hand_Joe must accept that the guy holding it is the best in the world. Otherwise, the title has no meaning and unification is worthless.

    Exceptions occur when the champion refuses to fight the best opposition--but even then, guys like Patterson have still become ATG's.
     
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    The same type of "ducking" could be attributed to Joe Calzaghe (he of the single great victory), yet he is still thought of as the best in his weightclass. In his case, he does not even hold a lineal claim to the title.
     
  8. Lance_Uppercut

    Lance_Uppercut ESKIMO Full Member

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    You say that now...
     
  9. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    Calzaghe has taken on the heir to the throne in 2006, is now taking on the next one in 2007 and has been trying to pursue the big American P4P names for the longest time, he's also cleaned out the Euro circuit(save for Ottke and Beyer, who ducked him)in his earlier career, disposing of an older Eubank, defeating Reid, tkoing Woodhall, nearly shutting Starie out etc.

    These names that I listed above are no worse for wear than what Hopkins defeated pre-Trinidad, in fact, they are better.

    It's not Calzaghe's fault that he was a very big danger but also of no name towards the international, namely American list of big names that bring each other big money. He is getting there finally, but still, Jermain Taylor avoided a 6 million dollar payday in Las Vegas and Tarver(pre-Hopkins) wanted no part of him, with the stipulations that Joe jump up and face Tarver in America at LHW.

    See what I mean? The only case that anyone has that Calzaghe avoided, is Glen Johnson, and this was because of an injury for the most part, they sought to reconcile this by offering Johnson a fight at 175 in America after Tarver ignored and Taylor ignored, but nothing was heard on it and I can't tell you what happened, I know Johnson would have taken it, but maybe the money was not right.
     
  10. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    First of all, I know how to score a fight and do so objectively when seriously scoring it and if I score the fight for Taylor, I will give him credit. Likewise if I feel it's a fight that is a 'swing fight' in the sense that either fighter could have gotten it, I'd give credit.

    I feel Hopkins beat him clearly first time and Wright definitley beat him clearly.

    I also scored the Spinks fight a draw, but since several 'swing' rounds were there, it was obvious that a Taylor win was fair, because Spinks sure as hell did not win it.
     
  11. China_hand_Joe

    China_hand_Joe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This makes zero logical sense as you are fully aware.
     
  12. vonBanditos

    vonBanditos Mσderator Full Member

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    Just to (off-topic) nitpick, Tarver wasn't the lineal champion.
     
  13. pioterbezkitu

    pioterbezkitu Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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    Isn't Erdei the lineal champ at LHW?
     
  14. Amsterdam

    Amsterdam Boris Christoff Full Member

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    That may be. Regardless, Briggs and Adamek ducked it out for me at least on who's truly top at 175 two times, then Dawson nearly shutout Adamek.

    We have to remember, Tarver ducked Briggs, because he'd have lost to the young hungry Australian slugger. Tarver didn't fight bums, Glen Johnson is an awesome fighter, but he fought for the money more so than the legacy and it shows.

    Do you agree with me? After Adamek beat briggs on the Golota/Brewster undercard, I considered him to be the best at LHW, seeing as he also also KOed Ulrich and that Briggs beat the **** out of Drews(both are near Erdei's level).
     
  15. vonBanditos

    vonBanditos Mσderator Full Member

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    I'd agree that he was the best, but it was just a minor detail that I was bringing up. Michalczewski fought and beat Hill before Jones did so the lineage went off in that direction.