Wladimir Klitschkos Legacy

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by heizenberg, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I think he's Dino. We'll find out soon enough.

    Remember when Dino created that weird profile and kept going around liking his own posts. Then he claimed someone did that to frame him?
     
  2. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    He did that "refer back" thing with me for about 20 pages over two days. He's a disgrace of a poster. No pride. No honour. A total low life.
     
  3. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    See, you just can't stay away. Which topic would you like to get owned about this time?
     
  4. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    I never destroyed anybody the way i destroyed you in that Sanders thread. I don't blame you for wanting no more part of that discussion.
    There's only so many times you can repeat 'Post # 272'
     
  5. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Back on topic. Great Video..

    This content is protected
     
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  6. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's one way of looking at it but it's a sweeping statement.
    The opposite could just as easily be stated - in that Wlad's opposition were weak to begin with.

    The quality of his opposition is a much debated topic by many. It's clear that there are different opinions on either side of the fence - with few, if any, agreeing on there being a specific signature win.


    There being no fault of either man might well be the case but that doesn't change the fact that the fight didn't happen (no more than Vitali being Wlad's brother changes the fact that the Champ and No 1 ranked Heavyweight didn't fight). And so, it remains an unavenged defeat. This wouldn't be a big point of interest, had it not been such a bad loss.

    Granted though, it could be seen as worse, had deliberate avoidance been established.

    In any event, going back to the initial point of disagreement, I think there is more than a reasonable basis, upon which you could argue Wlad's exclusion from the Top-10 ATG Heavyweights. His position there is not a lock, by any stretch, and easily up for debate.
     
  7. Odins beard

    Odins beard Fentanyl is one hell of a drug.... Full Member

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    Honest question here....

    Why is Wlads opposition so weak, along with his era?

    Suddenly Wlad loses and the bums prior to Wlad equate to a great new exciting era and what is so bad about Povetkin, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye, McCline, Peter, Thompson?

    Honestly are they really any weaker than Botha, Akinwande, Bean, Grant, Moorer, Tua, Mavrovic etc?
     
  8. Okin129

    Okin129 ... Full Member

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    He beat David Haye, Alexander Povetkin, Chris Byrd, Samuel Peter, Kubrat Pulev, Chagaev, Ibragimov and
    had an all time great performance against a 250 pound power punching beast at 41 years old, despite losing
    the fight.

    Samuel Peter was a beast in 2005, David Haye was clearly an elite fighter who made the wrong choices in
    his career, he destroyed everyone in the cruiserweight division and was a feared fighter in the HW division.

    Povetkin is an olympic gold medalist, Chagaev was a really good fighter as well as Ibragimov and Chris Byrd
    and Wlad beat them all, he dominated the most of them.

    He has a better resume than Larry Holmes and a lot of other all time greats, he is clearly a top 10 ATG.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    The HW division sucked for like 12 years? :nonono
     
  10. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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  11. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is a common and understandable response to criticism of Wlad's opposition. But, to be fair, Wlad's recent losses have little to do with the perception that his opposition, overall, has been weak. I have always considered this most current era as being poor.

    By picking a sprinkling of what each era had to offer, we are not seeing the bigger picture.

    Why not add Wach, Leapai, Pianeta to Wlad's era...

    ...and add Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson to the '90s/early '00s era

    We still don't get anywhere, really.


    I would argue that, from 1990 through to 2003 inclusive, it was a more dangerous division (albeit that, by 2000, this trend was beginning to tail off)

    By 2004 we were seeing a drop in the level of competitiveness, overall.

    The Top-20 Heavies, across 1990 to 2003, in no particular order, could be argued as being:

    Lennox Lewis
    Riddick Bowe
    Ike Ibeabuchi
    Evander Holyfield
    Mike Tyson
    George Foreman
    Michael Moorer
    Buster Douglas
    Oliver McCall
    Larry Holmes
    Ray Mercer
    David Tua
    Tommy Morrison
    Frank Bruno
    Razor Ruddock
    Andrew Golota
    Tony Tucker
    Tim Witherspoon
    Shannon Briggs


    The Top-20 Heavies, across 2004 to 2016, in no particular order, argued as being:

    Vitali Klitschko
    Wladimir Klitscho
    Corrie Sanders
    Chris Byrd
    Hasim Rahman
    Samuel Peter
    Evander Holyfield
    Alexander Povetkin
    David Haye
    Eddie Chambers
    Ruslan Chagaev
    Nikolay Valuev
    Lamon Brewster
    John Ruiz
    David Tua
    Jameel McCline
    Shannon Briggs
    James Toney
    Tyson Fury


    There are a few boxers, who appear in both lists and these are in bold font.

    When I imagine match-ups between fighters from each of the respective lists (which is a seemingly eternal exercise, I might add) I envision the upper list doing better than the one below it.

    Another observation is that, during the more or less four-year period that Vitali was retired, no other competing 'lineage' (for want of a better word) formed, despite Wlad only holding one of the major belts, only unifying with the WBO in 2008. In other words, there was nothing else coming through, for a significant period of time, when it could have done so, uninhibited. This is not a sign of a thriving division.

    Instead, Vitali came out of retirement and became the Ring's #2 overnight and then #1 (with Wlad as Champ), beating over-matched challengers for another four years.

    Conversely, during the Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis era, we saw competitive vying, across the major sanctioning bodies. Unification had a certain inevitability. It made for a different more highly charged environment.

    You may disagree and plenty will. But, that's my take (or, at least, a part of it).
     
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  14. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Adequate wins , but it isn't the comp that produces ATG Champs.

    They are all C and B level with zero athletic ability and average skills outside Povetkin.

    And only a hardened fanboy gives Wlad credit for the Povetkin win. It was a ridiculous performance which is actually counter productive to the argument of his greatness.
     
  15. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know who he beat and who beat him. I'm sure you have lots of opinions about what makes a fighter an ATG and why Wlad has a better resume than someone else. I have my own view.

    I think there is a solid basis to question his place as a Top-10 ATG Heavyweight. There's little else to say about this particular point.