Who else is qualified for the status of GOAT?

I think it's probably just a joke honestly

 

Tunney also has a substantially shallower loss resume. But I think the current environment has made people associate such marks with resume weakness. And this has led to a movement where a greater SOS and more losses is viewed more favorably than it would have been historically. Tunneys resume is not as good as Grebs in terms of SOS but it is good enough where beating everyone he ever fought and having a draw with Greb in H2H(I'm conceding the robbery) should carry the day. And I think when they retired it did. Tunneys stoppage rate is also twice as high as Grebs(as is Langfords). Which in the NWS era should matter.

In terms of the Willis>Langford v Tunney>Greb comp Greb never fought for the HW title despite campaigning at the weight class. Also Willis's resume has losses with a much worse SOS than Tunneys even if said SOS wasn't Willis' fault. I don't think thats the same thing. And Langfords got a better case than Greb if we're going by the whole "small guys acheiving the most at the highest weight" angle. Langford was more successful at HW despite being a little smaller than Greb winning a HW belt at least twice and winning possibly virtually every regional belt at the weight class.

I think generally in that time period beating everyone you fought and being the GOAT in the 2 biggest divisions kind of makes you the GOAT by default. Obviously now its 2024 thats no longer the case but I believe if someone pre 30s should be considered the GOAT of boxing it should be Tunney.

In terms of the age thing Tunney is 3 years younger than Greb. That difference isn't immaterial but it is close enough where I don't think it should matter. Both guys were out of there by the time they turned 35. I generally believe we shouldn't be using age as an excuse for fighters in their early 30s who are fighting at a championship level. If people like Foreman and Holmes can fight for titles at 45 people a decade younger should not be able to write losses against top competition a few years younger off their resume.

 

Well he got me!

 

I only rate fighters who I've seen with my own two eyes and theres no footage of Greb. Robinson H2H looks like a modern fighter and could compete in any era, combined with his amazing record hes the clear P4P number 1 for me.

 

Everyone has their own ranking criteria and you're certainly entitled to yours.

The 4 x reasons I gave are why the vast, vast majority of posters would rank Greb above Tunney, in an all time p4p sense.

 

After studying Greb's career and his resume I put him in the mix for greatest of all time, and he very well may be, but as you say from what I've actually seen it's Ray Robinson.

 

Hi Greg.
Most, if not all right thinking boxing pundits would agree with your top 4, maybe in varying positions, what sort of stood out for me , in the last 50 + years no one has rivalled these four, and in Grebs @ Langfords case 100 years or so, when you think of all the great fighters over that period, too many to mention, it truly staggers the mind that they have remained at the apex of great champions.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.

 

Deontay Wilder. SRR is #2.

 

Leonard
Greb
Louis
Armstrong
Langford
Gans
Attell

Amongst others.

 

Tunney had a habit of picking on guys that were past their primes.

 

Issue with Langford is how badly he was held back due to the color line. Never got the opportunities he deserved. And it was especially bad with him because of how high-risk he was. He'd have happily got in the ring with a white heavyweight while he was still a middleweight, but they wanted none of that due to his absurd power.

So hard to say where he'd really have ranked. The world never got to see. What's undisputed was that he was the full package, solid technically, good chin, and absurd power.

Love the quotes from the era about his power.

“The hell I feared no man! There was one man, he was even smaller than I, and I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford" -- Jack Dempsey.

 

Strongly disagree but the world is big enough for us all to have our heroes.


I would include Willie Pep as based on pure numbers no one stacks up next to him. Hes the only fighter I know of that has 2 60+ fight win streaks.

 

I've said this before about Greb and was verbally assaulted on here

 

Agree on everyone here but curious to hear the reasoning behind Abe Attell.

 

Langford, Greb, Charles, Robinson, and Armstrong are the top 5 for me. Though I usually have Langford ranked at the top.