1913 - johnson v langford: who wins?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Battling Jim was a strong 220 pound heavyweight who resembled a wrestler as much as a boxer. We know that Jack Johnson wasn't against clinching his opponents either. A broken arm is rare in a boxing match but in the early 1900s a boxing match could resemble a wrestling match.

    Picture of Battling Jim Johnson:

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    It was the first heavyweight title fight between two coloured boxers.
     
  2. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Under the prevailing atmosphere of the times, Sam would likely have to take Jack out to lift the title. I just don't see it happening. Langford would have no chance at winning from long range, he'd have to go inside, where Johnson was a miserable ******* with clinches and that raking right uppercut.

    Yeah, I think Lil' Artha' gets in the best shape possible for a rematch with Sam, and holds him off to retain the championship. Give Jack a 20 round limit, and he likely remains the kingpin until Dempsey or Fulton knock him off his perch by knockout.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Langford via KO. Johnson was lucky to escape with a draw vs. Battling Jim Johnson, and won a very close decision on film vs. a just ok contender in Moran in his next fight.

    If you ever saw Langford destroy Jeanette in 1913 ( I sent it to HE who uploaded it here ) , there is little doubt who would likely win this one.
     
  4. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    McVea, Langford & Jeannette also were lucky to escape with draws against Battling Jim.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Define lucky? Are you suggesting Jim was the better man? Never read that in print. You can post the article here.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Bat Jim was clearly something of a spoiler.

    We have to give him that if nothing else!
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Wouldn't you like to see it? I see nothing wrong with the request.
     
  9. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Battling Jim wasn't the better man against Johnson either. Mauling and wrestling in a non-fight against your opponent for 10 rounds doesn't mean you beat him, unless you think he beat Langford, Jeannette and McVea in those draws as well. Actually he may have a better case that he did.

    "Johnson knocks Jeannette out"

    http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0B16F6345D13738DDDAF0994DF405B848DF1D3

    Another newspaper (Atlanta Constitution) felt that Johnson deserved the decision.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Beating better opposition pretty much does make you better.

    From 10-15 johnson does not have a case of fighting nor beating better opposition.

    I can't see jack being in any better shape than he generally was during this time frame.

    Ofcourse we'll never know but based on the evidence we have I give sam the edge.

    Although I can buy the argument that given a 20 round limit johnson wouldn't have lost his crown until dempsey (based on his actual career and opponents)
     
  11. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Umm no it doesn't, it just means your facing better opposition, it doesn't make you a better boxer, it just means your facing better opposition. For years Calzaghe feasted on terrible opposition, Kessler was supposedly facing better oppostion, then Joe raised his game and dominated Kessler. Mosley was supposedly facing better opposition than Mayweather, how much did that help him?

    Johnson dominating weaker opposition doesn't make him worse than the man he dominated that's facing better opposition, it just means that man is trying harder to prove himself, nothing more
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    And none of them were fighting with a broken arm.
    Jim Johnson drew with Langford 3 times

    Jeannette 3 times and, Jeff Clark once ,koing him in 8rds in another fight, he also drew with McVey.

    The fact that Jack Johnson 35 and ,inactive for nearly a year and a half ,went 10rds to a draw with him suffering a broken arm sustained in the 3rd rd is not detrimental to the champion imo.

    I call that a positive .

    Mendoza gets on Jack Johnson's case for this fight about once a month yet manages to excuse Vitali Klitschko for quitting with an arm injury at the age of 28 in a fight he was winning reasonably comfortably against a man he outweighed by 34lbs and who was giving him nearly 8 inches in height.
    A man who was known as a feather fisted puncher.

    Jack Johnson was fighting a heavy hitting ,strong man ,whom he was conceding 9 years in age to ,a man who had fought just 7 months previously, whilst he had been inactive for over 17 months ,and had been dissipating himself in Paris.
    Double Standards?:hey
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    We have different definitions of what a better boxer is then.

    Maybe I just rate johnson higher than you, I dunno, but the man from after jeffries is not how I choose to remember jack. Unmotivated and on the decline
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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