I just think Johnson would be too much for Sam... Johnson WOULD train for this fight knowing who he is facing. He didn't train for Jim Johnson and had a broken arm and still drew... this same Johnson drew with this world beater Langford, as well as Joe J, Wills and Mcvey. That was a Johnson who didn't even train.. The problem is, no matter if Jack trained like he never had before or not, his style is all wrong for Sam. He outboxes sam on the outside and very easily at that... shape or no shape. If he goes on the inside.. he is going against one of the best inside fighters to even live.. and somebody who has a decided physical advantage over Sam... I just don't see Sam beating Johnson.. even by 1913
it would and that's the basis I have for making my pick. since jeffries we never really saw a peak johnson, whilst seeing a peak Langford (I'm also questioning Langford's loss to gunboat, that seems a bit dubious to me [as does johnson's to jeanette actually, from what I can gather he got DQ'd for landing a knockout blow {similar to fitz v sharkey}])
Luf... you don't think Johnson was all wrong for Sam? Their first fight proved just that and it wasn't even close... If Johnson trains even reasonably how can Sam overcome this? Sam had a great run.. no doubting that and maybe he would've done better or took a few from Johnson.. like 3 out 10.. but to give him the majority when he clearly was all wrong going against Johnson.. I just don't see.
Let me ask you though - do you think Evander Holyfield is all wrong for a 160lb James Toney? Because I do. In fact, I don't think Toney would have a chance. I don't think that fight would be close. I think the CW Holyfield would probably KO Toney...how would Toney overcome this?
I cannot stress too strongly that Johnson prety much went into the tank after the Jeffries fight. He clearly suffered from some sort of mental or nervous breakdown. He appears to have atempted suicide more than once and to have been commited to an asylum. I submit that his breakdown and subsequent decline, would have been enough to make the prime and rampaging Langford the favourite.
The langford jack beat was a credible contender, i'll happily say that. But the langford jack refused to defend against was a prime monster who was destroying the top ten contenders. His only meaningfull losses from 10-15 appear to be to clarke and jeanette and he avenged both quickly. By 15 he was losing or drawing every other fight to wills, mcvey, jeanette or clarke but for the 5 years mentioned I can't imagine anyone coming in half arsed and beating him. Nor can I imagine johnson coming in anything other than half arsed. Johnson dominated a very good langford, but he avoided an even greater man imo. The weight discrepancy makes it hard to evaluate the style clash from the first fight. But as mcvey said earlier, johnson's best chance might be to jab. From reading the gunboat "loss" it seems sam was not once troubled by the jab, and was happily dodging his way inside to punish the body. Kind of like hart v johnson. So it's not beyond reason sam (much better than hart) vs a declined version of johnson could take a victory or even wear him down. Again I stress this is just the post jeffries johnson. The still hungry johnson whips any version of sam imo.
Folks, quit selling Jack Johnson short and over-selling Sammy Langford... Even a 35 year old heavyweight champion in Jack Johnson is gonna be too big and strong, plus, too good for the great Langford.... Jack Johnson was not in bad shape in 1913..... Johnson wins..... I'm also considering that Johnson would know the stakes if such a match were made and would be serious and well trained..... SR.BILLbbb:hat
The first fight between the two proved little except that Johnson could not finish off a 156 pound Langford who according to a book was only 20 years old! That version of Langford A far cry from the Boston Terror who weighed between 170-190 that terrorized the division, and clearly beat better opponents while Johnson as champion from 1908-1915. There were plenty of big time money offers for Johnson to take this fight. He declined them all ( vs Jeanette and McVey too ), so at the very least it shows Johnson who loved money did not see this as an easy fight.
Just a couple of things,[dont worry I will allways be here to "police" you]. Fight reports state Johnson knocked Langford down twice for long counts of nine, he then eased up on him. Langford ended up with cuts to his face and, around both eyes, plus a broken nose. Johnson at 185lbs, was also a far cry from the 208lbs muscled monster that threw Jim Jeffries around 4 years later. Langford stated "Johnson gave me the only real beating I ever took". Johnson loved money? He gave it away freely, and had spent his purse in a couple of days, after several of his fights. The man who loved money was Jim Jeffries ,he was never guilty of buying a drink with it, and had to have his gambling debts paid by Rickard so that the big fight could take place in Reno. Once he had decided to take it , Jeffries had 18months to train for the Johnson fight, but, because he was making an absolute fortune on the touring circuit ,he went on an additional tour and, sacrificed 6 months of preparation for $$$$$$. Langford had 50 fights under his belt when he fought Johnson,considerably more than Jack. Langford at 190lbs 5' 6.5" ,was hog fat. No one knew Langford's age including himself, he picked a birth date out of a hat. Langford's best guess was March 1883 which makes him 23 when he fought Johnson. This is 2 years older than Johnson was, when he was stopped by Klondike in a fight in which he was described by Alex Creggains as being a bag of bones.:good You know the fight ,the one you are allways trumpeteting on about. The NSC offered Jack Johnson only £3000 to fight Langford, he sensibly declined. You have never come up with a primary source for a concrete offer for Johnson to defend against Langford for big money, in spite of repeating this canard ad nauseum. Al you have ever shown is newpaper talk, most of it untitled, publicity crap.. Langford's biggest purse was for fighting Iron Hague ,a white man. Speaking once again of; PRIMARY SOURCES; ARE YOU EVER GOING TO PRODUCE ONE THAT BACK'S UP YOUR CLAIM BURNS WAS ILL WHEN HE DEFENDED AGAINST JOHNSON AND ,THAT HE SOUGHT A POSTPONEMENT? ps, Mendacity, it's allways nice to be able to steer you back towards the path of honesty, and truth ,even if you never quite manage walk it.:hi:
Langford didn't start beating better opponents until 1911. I don't care what hindsight or revisionism we have, jeffries was considered the best boxer in the world even when jack fought him. That victory is horribly underrated today. They were calling it the fight of the century at the time.