1913 - johnson v langford: who wins?

"No one knew Langford's age including himself, he picked a birth date out of a hat.
Langford's best guess was March 1883 which makes him 23 when he fought Johnson.
This is 2 years older than Johnson was, when he was stopped by Klondike in a fight in which he was described by Alex Creggains as being a bag of bones"

I still maintain that the 1886 date he gave in a series of articles published in 1924 is the correct year of his birth and believe that makes the most sense based on the birthdates of his brothers and sisters which I provide in my biography about Langford. His brother Walter was born in 1883.

I suspect that Johnson may have been able to use his size advantage and a cautious boxing style to stay away from Langford and earn a decision victory had they fought again but it's a shame that Johnson drew the color line against a deserving contender who was no more than a middleweight the first time they fought.

 

"I like to roll with you on this one Clay, but doesn't this make Langford 17 when he outboxed and outgeneralled Joe Gans? Something like that frankly doesn't seem that it should be possible, and I would expect to see it referred to in primary sources - "the teenager" etc. - where I haven't?"

Yep, it would make him 17 at the time he beat Gans. I hear ya. But, I spent a lot of time trying to confirm the date of his birth and based on the dates of birth of his siblings, what Langford, Joe Woodman, etc. said and all the ages he was quoted as being in so many local newspaper sources for the fights over his career it just seemed to me that 1886 had to be the correct year. Until someone can prove to me otherwise, I have to believe 1886 is correct.

 

I was hoping you would join in.
In the absence of a birth certificate,[and even they have been wrong,] we just don't know Langford's age.
I am not saying for one moment you are wrong, but I definitely entertain the possibility..

I quite agree, Langford should have got his shot aginst Johnson.

Jack said if he was offered $30,000 ,[the same as Burns received to defend against him,] he would fight Sam,or anyone else.

Johnson can hardly be blamed for not taking the NSC's derisory offer up .

Langford was without doubt the foremost contender for a significant time.

However, Johnson was getting the same sort of money he was offered to fight Sam ,for plodding through 6 meaningless rounds with O Brien,and treble that for facing Flynn, a man he had allready convincingly thrashed.

If the stuation had been reversed ,who is to say Langford would not have done the same thing,and taken the, just as lucrative and ,appreciably easier options.?

Both Langford ,and Johnson were pre - prime when they met ,no doubt Sam would put up a better show with another 20/25lbs on him ,[ he was allready the more experienced fighter,] but, so would Johnson,who ,when he faced Jeffries at 208lbs ,stated he was in the condition of his life.


Prime for prime, Johnson beats Langford 7 days a week,anyone who is short ,and comes into Johnson gets beat. Just my opinion.

 

Joe Woodman claimed that he looked up Sam's birth certificate and confirmed the 1886 birthdate but who knows if he really did. I certainly wouldn't bet my house on the 1886 date being accurate, all I can say is that based on everything I found in terms of sibling birthdates, what Sam and Woodman said, and all of the accounts of his given age at various points during his life and boxing career and death the 1886 date was far and away the most plausible one.

The National Sporting Club's offer to Johnson was definately not very lucrative, especially to fight against a fighter like Sam but don't forget that the club helped finance Johnson's trip to Australia so he could continue his pursuit of Burns and that they did so on the condition that should he win the title Johnson come back and fight Langford in front of the club. Johnson accepted their money but later claimed that it was his manager that agreed to those terms and not him.

No agrument on my part that Johnson made just as much money fighting less dangerous foes that he would have to face Sam.

Who knows if the situation were reversed if Sam wouldn't have done the same thing but I kinda doubt it. I suspect he would have given the top contender a shot at the title.

I'm not going to say that Langford would have defeated him had they fought again, just that he deserved the opportunity and on that I think we agree. It's clear to me that Johnson didn't want to face him again and I don't believe that the amount of money offered was the only reason. The Australian promoter, Hugh McIntosh, said that when he was trying to make a match between the pair again for the umpteenth time Johnson finally said to him, "Say, Mister Mac,” he drawled, “you’re only wasting your time talking to me. I don’t want to fight that little smoke. He’s got a chance against anyone in the world. I’m the first black champion and I’m going to be the last.”

In my book the fact that Johnson ducked the # 1 contender for at least a couple or more years during his reign tarnishes his legacy just like Dempsey's is for failing to give Harry Wills a shot at the title.

 

"I generally hold with you on this one, but that Gans thing makes me uncomfortable. If I could find one press report mentioning his extreme youth in that fight I would feel so much happier. "

It's certainly worth another look.

 

In Sam’s January 1927 interview with newpaper columnist Ed Hughes he would recount that Gans showed him stuff he had ever dreamed of before, and that frequently he would later see Gans block a punch and with the same hand drive in a knockout blow.

“Gans was the coolest, calmest fighter I ever met, or saw. No matter what was happening to him, he never lost his temper, never changed the expression of his face. Many fighters when hurt, show it in their faces. Joe never did. Many fighters, when ready to hit tighten their lips, half close their eyes, or give a tip-off in some way as to what’s going to happen. Joe never did. A wonder of wonders, that was Joe Gans.”

“Many have wondered, how it was that I, just a beginner, whipped the experienced and wonderful Joe that night. Most of them think it was because at the time I was greater than Joe. But here is the real story.”

“Gans thought he had something “soft” in tackling me. So on his way up from Baltimore, the night before the fight, he played poker all night and climbed into the ring without any real sleep. “ In a 1927 interview Sam would recount that he fought a very different sort of Gans as a result of Joe so badly underestimating him. Gan’s friends told him Sam was a nobody, just a set up. So Joe didn’t train very hard. Sam later learned that Joe spent most of the time playing poker, drinking and having a general good time. He counted on stopping Sam in a few rounds, and openly declared he would.

Sam on the other hand was in great shape.

Cigar smoke filled the arena as the announcer introduced the fighters cupping his hands around his mouth to form a makeshift megaphone. “In this corner, the lightweight champion of the world, Joe Gans. And in this corner, the challenger, Sam Langford. Fifteen rounds for the world’s championship.” At the time, Sam had been fighting professionally for less than 24 months.

Fleischer book – “The fight began with Gans jabbing swiftly and firing rapid left hooks at his opponents jaw. Several of these hooks hit their mark, and jarred Langford considerably. One of these flying lefts staggered Langford and as Sam reeled back, Joe followed with a terrific right full on the mouth. (The first round went to Sam.)

At that point, Sam began playing safe, avoiding Gan’s leads, and up until the third round, Gans did all the forcing. But as the fight went on, Sam’s confidence in himself increased. He wasn’t seriously hurt, and he had discovered that, when it came to infighting, he was much stronger than the lightweight king.

In the fourth round, Gans organized a two fisted attack. He pounded Sam about the ring, and the crowd watched with alarm for young Langford. Sam reeled, he seemed ready to fall. But just in time, he managed to bull into a clinch, and held on until the bell saved him. Sam’s seconds got out the smelling salts during the rest period and Sam came back fighting in the fifth.

From the fifth round Sam became the aggessor. At one point Sam threw a viscious right and followed up with one to the ribs. Gans was hurt, and went down for a count of six before he staggered to his feet. Joe was obliged to resort to every trick in his extensive repertoire to baffle Sam’s savage attacks. The fifth round was even, as was the sixth.

The fierce battle continued through the 10th, 11th, and on down to the last round. In that 15th round, the champion stood toe-to-toe with the young challenger slugging away. In the last few rounds it appeared that Gans had the advantage.

Neither tried often to get to the body, but Sam was the more successful in his attempts, and every time his glove came in contact with ish adversary’s body the latter winced. It was clear he did not relish the punishment. Several times during the bout it appeared that Sam had Gans tired and groggy, but he evidently did not wish to take any chances and appeared to be content to outpoint him in order to gain the decision. Gans was careful as well, and they both blocked so well, slipped rushes so dexterously and sparred so gingerly that the bout became monotonous and one-sided., save for the fact that the local man was winning. But throughout the entire 15 rounds Langford was the aggressor, and when Gans opened up, it was only momentarily.

(The Boston Globe report of the fight stated that after the third round Langford beat the southern wonder in a manner that left no doubt in the minds of the spectators as to which was the better man, and that after two-thirds of the contest had been finished that even Gans most rabid supporters admitted Joe would need a knockout if he wished to win the contest.)

When the last bell rang, and the crowd awaited the decision, even Sam’s followers in the galleries and back rows had decided that it was a close fight, almost close enough for a draw. But the honors went to Sam by the referee’s verdict, which Gans admitted later he agreed with, while adding that he had underestimated Langford. The announcer raised his hand for silence “The winner…and new lightweight champion”. That was as far as he got. The rising thunder of cheers drowned him out as he added “Sam Langford, of Boston.”

Sam had won the title. However, the next day it was taken away when it became apparent he had weighed in 2 pounds over the lightweight limit. However, the Globe offered it’s opinion that any advantage Sam had in weight on Gans was more than offset by the expenditure of energy caused by all the road work Sam had done earlier in the day in an effort to reduce his weight and as a result save his forfeit.

(The Boston Globe wrote that Gans did not box like a champion. He appeared tired and listless from the start and his appearance in respects was decidedly more marked as the bout went along, and Langford continued to snap his left glove into the face of the dethroned champion.)

Sam: “In my opinion the greatest all around fighter, when you reckoned brains and boxing coolness and speed, ability to take it and power to give, was Joe Gans. I learned the most of any fighter I faced in my fight with him. At the time I was just learning, and had plenty to learn. Not only did I learn from fighting Joe, but when we got all through and I had whipped him, he came to me and said: “Boy, you’re good. You’re going to get somewhere if you stick to business. I’m not going to fight you again. You’re too tough. Because I won’t meet you again, I’ll show you how to hit. That’s something you haven’t learned yet. If you knew how to hit, you would have knocked me out tonight.”

And so Joe Gans spent an hour showing me my hitting faults, and how I could change them and do some hitting like he did. None of the other boys I faced did any of that free teaching like Joe did. He taught me in the ring and I paid for it a lot of times by taking a good socking.

“When I fought Joe I weighed 141 pounds. Joe said I had to make 135. The best I could do was 136 and Al Herford, who was Joe’s manager, wanted to collect the forfeit (said to be anywhere from $200 to $500. But Gans wouldn’t let him do it. Sam got $250 for beating Gans, and Gans received $700. After the fight was over, I said to Joe Woodman, my manager: “I’m all done making weight for other fellows.” “Then you can’t fight lightweights,” said Joe. “That’s right, I can’t,” I said, “but aren’t there some welterweights and middleweights and heavies in this world? I’ll fight them. Never mind how big they are. If they are too big to get through the ropes, you go use some of your money and get a derrick and lift em in. Then I’ll knock em out.” From that day forward, Sam never made weight for anybody, and he never asked anyone to make weight for him. He decided he would rather fight big fellows than little ones. “The little ones are too frisky and you have to chase em too much. And, lawdy me, how I did hate that hurrying around. The big boys have lovely big stomachs that you can hit with your eyes closed, and nice big chins you can hit by just tossing your arms into the air, without doing any of those marathon things to get yourself warmed up.”

Only the fact that Sam exceeded the lightweight limit by the smallest of margins prevented the title from trading hands that night!

In a January 1927 interview with newpaper columnist Ed Hughes Sam recalled that a few hours after the fight he felt like celebrating his big victory, so he went to a cabaret with some friends. As it turned out Gans was seated at a table not far away. He looked hard for a long while before recognizing Sam. Then he walked over and shook Sam’s hand saying: “Boy, you’re going to be a great fighter some day. You’re the first man that ever puffed my lips. Take care of yourself, don’t get a big head and nobody can keep you from being a champion. Then he shook hands again, patted me on the back and went back to his table.

 

Dec. 9, 1903 The Boston Daily Page 1
JOE GANS IS BEATEN
Langford Gets the Decision.
He Fairly Outclasses the Champion.
Has All the Better of It After Third Round.
Both Men Are Over the Lightweight Limit.
Joe Gans, acknowledged lightweight champion of the world, suffered his first decisive defeat since he acquired the title by defeating Frank Erne at Buffalo, at the hands of Sam Langford of this city in the arena of the Criterion A. C. last night.
Langford proved his superiority in 15 rounds of really scientific boxing, and his victory was so apparent after two-thirds of the contest had been finished, that even the more rabid of Gans' supporters admitted that the Baltimore lad would have to effectively deliver the local lad his quietus if he wished to gain a favorable verdict from referee Eugene Buckley.

After the third round Langford beat the southern wonder in a manner that left no doubt in the minds of the spectators as to which was the better man.
A more scientific battle was probably never witnessed. It was really such a clever exhibition that it became monotonous as the bout progressed. Gans was reputed to possess a terrific punch. Langford was known to be very fast and clever, both with his feet and hands. Both bore reputations as wonderful blockers and the contest proved that all that has been said of both contestants was based on facts.
Not Like a Champion.

There was one disappointing feature, however. Gans did not box like a champion. He appeared tired and listless from the start, and his appearance in these respects was decidedly more marked as the bout went along, and Langford continued to snap his left glove into the chocolate-colored visage of the dethroned champion.

Although Sam Langford defeated Joe Gans, the lightweight champion, Langford does not become the champion. The lightweight limit has been placed at 133 pounds. To all intents and purposes a champion risks his title every time he steps into a ring, but the bout last night was not at the championship limit. Pres. Frank Griffin of the Criterion club weighed the men yesterday afternoon, and Gans tipped the bar at 135¼ pounds.

Langford weighed 140 pounds.
The weight agreed upon was 138 pounds and Langford forfeited. But, yet it must be said in justice to the victor, that the additional weight did not help him. For the greater part of yesterday morning and afternoon Langford was on the road plodding for miles in the hope that he would reduce his weight and thus save his forfeit. So what advantage he had in weight was more than offset by the strain on his vitality by the hard work.
Gans, according to the club physician was not in the pink of condition. Both boxers
were subjected to a minute examination before they entered the ring. Gans' stomach bothered him not a little.

Contrary to expectations, there was not the usual crowd that attends a championship ring contest. This was probably due to the fact that while Langford has been recognized as a good boxer and a worthy opponent for any one his weight, he was not considered in the same class with Gans.

Gans Took Chances.
Langford, blacker by several shades than the youth who has vanquished all aspirants for the title since he acquired it, demonstrated last night, at least, that he was in a class several degrees above the Maryland boxer. Gans learned a good lesson. Experience has now taught him that even a champion cannot engage in bouts with such regularity and yet maintain his speed and stamina. On Monday night Gans boxed six rounds with Dave Holly at Philadelphia, and, although he whipped Holly, he admitted himself last night that the exertion sapped his vitality.

On the other hand Langford did not perform so well as he has against men of minor importance. He was clever and ever the aggressor but he apparently had a wholesome respect for the power behind Gans' right glove. And Gans proved early in the bout that his good right hand was his stock in trade, and ever after that Langford managed to keep his right hand in readiness to block or parry that right any time it came crashing toward his vulnerable parts.

When the men finally squared away for the encounter Gans assumed a stooping posture, almost a crouch, while Langford stood erect, his head well poised, and both his hands moved about at arm's length, ready to stop any lead which the champion might make.
Scientific Battle.

Gans was cool and finally succeeded in feinting Langford into a lead, and then began a battle most scientific. In and out went their bodies and a deft movement of Langford's long left arm caused Gans to jump back with the agility of a cat. Finally Gans took a hand at feinting himself, and quick as a flash langford's left arm swept around in a circular motion. It had started for his opponent's jaw, but the head and shoulders suddenly disappeared, only to come up again well inside the arm and close to Langford's body. They separated and both shot their lefts out simultaneously. Smash again went their lefts and over came both right hands, aimed for the jaw, but they slid harmlessly around each neck.

And so it continued all through the 15 rounds. Neither tried often to get to the body, but Langford was the more successful in his attempts, and every time his gloves came in contact with his adversary's body the latter winced. He did not relish the punishment.
After the third round Langford demonstrated that his was the niftier left hand, and he kept poking it into Gans' face with rapidity and precision until Gans' face became red and swollen and his lips became stained with blood. Gans also stabbed well, but Langford managed to tip his head to one side when the jabs became dangerous.

All through the bout Gans tried to poke Sam's head back and cross his right to the jaw, and he did manage to connect several times, but Langford never seemed phased and always fought back more desperately after each right to the jaw.

Langford seemed to be frightened at the reputation of the man before him until it seemed as if he was hypnotized. Several times during the bout he had Gans tired and groggy, but he evidently did not wish to take any chances and appeared to be content to outpoint him in order to gain the decision.

Gans, too, was careful, and they both blocked so well, slipped rushes so dexterously and sparred so gingerly that the bout became monotonous and one-sided, save for the fact that a local man was winning. But throughout the entire 15 rounds Langford was the aggressor, and when Gans opened up, it was only momentarily--a flash in the pan.
In the preliminaries Matty Baldwin and Kid Pantz boxed an eight-round draw, and Jack Sumner of Philadelphia beat Alex Edmunds of Biddeford in four rounds

 

Dec. 9, 1903 The Boston Journal Page 8
JOE GANS BEATEN BY SAM LANGFORD
Cambridge Boy Is the Lightweight Champion as a Result of the Victory.
BOUT WENT FULL DISTANCE
Langford Was Two Pounds Overweight, but This Had No Effect on Result.
Hail the new lightweight champion, Sam Langford, the Cambridge boy who lowered the colors of that stellar boxer, Joe Gans of Baltimore, the undisputed champion of his class, last night at the Criterion Club.

The bout went the full distance of fifteen rounds and the decision in Langford's favor was all that could be accorded, as the local man demonstrated without any quibbling that he was superior at all stages of the game.

There was some delay in the men coming on, as Langford was two pounds overweight, as the articles called for 138 pounds, but the slight difference failed to have any effect on the result and Langford is deserving of all the glory that he won.

Gans looked the limit of fineness when he entered the ring and his stiff bout at Philadelphia the night previous kept him somewhat tied up, but he was the same clever, shifty, artful mit-wielder that has made him famous in the past, but he was up against a colored article that while lacking the years of experience of his dusky rival, yet combined all the qualities of a perfect boxing machine. Langford had a lightning left which bothered Gans immeasurably, pushing it into the Oriole's face with stinging force, blinding and smarting and keeping Gans at a distance.

Bout Lacked Fire.
His right was also always ready to drive and followed the left quickly on the jab and his most effective attack was to poke his left to the head and then swing his right over. Gans avoided several vicious swings by timely ducking and his ring science pulled him out of several bad places.

His favorite style was to get in close and hook his right to the head and he drove Langford to cover with the maneuver. The bout lacked the fire and aggressiveness that have characterized other affairs, as the boys made it a stand-off test, not taking any chances at mixing it too often. Langford was more inclined to force matters, but could not prevail upon Gans to catch the fever and he stuck to his task of outpointing the champion.

At the outset Langford held back and Gans held a slight advantage for three rounds by slipping in straight lefts, varying it with a left swing to the head. Then Langford got working and for a couple of rounds had things his own way, outmatching Gans in left arm exchanges. The men went at an even gait for three rounds, but Langford was getting bolder as the game progressed, and in the last seven rounds had decidedly the better of the argument, as he outclassed Gans in skill and scoring ability.

Langford Timid.
The general opinion expressed before the bout began was strongly in Gans' favor and Langford was expected to

In the opening round Langford appeared timid, and let Gans come to him with left jabs to the body. He countered on the head with his left, but was willing to stay away. They got close together in the second, and mussed it in grand shape with rights and lefts, but no damage was done. Gans reached over a hard right to the head, and Langford missed a couple of left swings to Gans' top-story.

A left to the body and a right cross to the head was Langford's best showing in the third. Gans kept his hands moving at close quarters, and made a vicious uppercut with his right that Langford blocked prettily.

Gans made a bad break in the fourth, when he sawed the wind with right and left, which left a big opening for Langford, but he was out of range. Langford got after his man and drove him to cover, but his quick shift made Langford hesitate. Gans used all his cunning to break down Langford's guard, but without avail. They mixed it freely in the fifth and in the hot exchanges Langford came out with flying colors, Gans being the first to clinch. Langford was doing the leading in the sixth, shooting his left out to Gans' face and occasionally adding to the latter's distress by rounding his right to the head.

Some Stalling.
Gans endeavored to swap left jabs in the seventh, but was easily outclevered and the round ended in an exciting rally, in which Gans escaped a bad swing by crouching.
Gans landed lefts and rights on the head in the eighth and Langford stalled for an instant, but got back and kept the visitor busy.

Langford was the whole thing in the ninth with his startling left jab, and made Gans repeatedly break ground, and getting no return. Gans whipped in a left hook to the body in the tenth, but had to take a cross-fire of rights and lefts. The next three rounds and the wind-up had Langford using his winning tactics and planting some hard cracks with his right on Gans' head. Gans was at a loss to offset the lead that Langford maintained in outpointing him and tired perceptibly as the bout neared the end.

In the preliminaries Mattie Baldwin of Charlestown and Kid Pantz of the North End went eight fast rounds to a draw. Jack Sumner, claiming Philadelphia as his home, and Alex Edmunds, from Biddeford, made a humorous bout as long as it lasted, but the termination came in the fourth round, when Sumner dug a right to the wind, and he was given the award.

 

Dec. 9, 1903 The Evening World (New York, NY) Page 12
LANGFORD ASTONISHES ALL BY BEATING CHAMPION GANS
(Special to The Evening World.)
BOSTON, Mass., Dec. 9.--Sam Langford, of this city, outfought and outgeneralled Joe Gans, the light-weight champion of the world, of Baltimore, in every round of the fifteen they contested last night at the Criterion Athletic Club, and at the end Referee Buckley gave the award to Langford. The result was a surprise, as Gans was a 1-to-3 shot before the bout was started; but before the first round was concluded those who had given such odds were looking for an opportunity to hedge.

Langford betrayed no signs of feat. He immediately went to the champion, who was jabbed and jolted around the ring as though he were a novice. Gans did very little during the round, retaliating only with a few jolts and a cross-counter, which did no damage to Langford.

Langford Had Gans Worried.
Langford confidently went after Gans in the second round, and, with snappy jabs to the face, he had the Baltimore boy worried. Gans would lead, only to fall short, and then Langford would step in with a straight left and back would bob Gans's head.
Gans either judged distance poorly or his opponent's extraordinary cleverness caused him to miss frequently, for he was wilder than a hawk when he got down to landing his punches. He could not find the Boston bay at any stage, who was all the time piling up such a score that Gans, to overcome it, must completely put him away.

Round followed round, and Gans did not improve in his work, and along about the eleventh he began to show signs that plainly told that he was worrying about his title. After that he would nervously go to the centre and try to draw Langford out, but his attempts were futile, as his able opponent knew too much for him.

All the time Langford was the aggressor, and the club members were amazed to see the champion breaking ground from a lad with only a local reputation. Langford's fast jabs, followed with terrific right hooks, did the work, and after the tenth round Gans had little steam left.

Gans Landed Few Blows.
During the entire bout he did not land a dozen clean blows on Langford, who blocked immensely. The decision in Langford's favor was received with cheers.
The preliminary of eight rounds, between "Kid" Pantz and Matty Baldwin, was called a draw, although Pantz had the advantage. The semi-final, between Jack Summers and Alex. Edmunds, ended in the fourth, in Summers's favor. Edmunds getting a right to the solar plexus that made him stop.

 

Dec. 9, 1903 The Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY) Page 3
JOE GANS LOSES TO COLORED BOY
Samuel Langford Defeats the Champion Lightweight.
OVER WEIGHT, HE LOSES BELT
Cambridge Pugilist Outclasses the Baltimorean in Blocking and Footwork and Lands Some Good Punches, Too.
By The Associated Press.
BOSTON, Dec. 8.--Samuel Langford, a colored pugilist from Cambridge, to-night surprised the followers of boxing by defeating Joe Gans of Baltimore, the lightweight champion of the world, in a 15-round bout at the Criterion Athletic Club in this city. Although Langford won the decision he was not awarded the world's lightweight championship, as he was two pounds over weight.

It was expected that Langford would give Gans a hard battle, but those who believed that the Cambridge boxer would receive the decision were few.

During the first three rounds Langford appeared to be somewhat afraid of the Baltimorean. He avoided infighting and it was seldom that the men got close enough together to land a blow.

When the fourth round opened Langford seemed to have gained confidence and in his blocking and footwork he outclassed Gans, whom he frequently jabbed with his left and occasionally landed a telling right hand swing. From the fourth to the eighth round the men appeared evenly matched.

In the last eight rounds practically all of the honors were on Langford's side. He landed many stinging left-hand punches on Gans, while it was seldom that the latter was able to touch the Cambridge boy.