Dec. 9, 1903 The Sun (Baltimore, MD) Page 9 DECISION OVER GANS Sam Langford Gets It In A Fifteen-Round Bout. [Special Dispatch to the Baltimore Sun.] BOSTON, Dec. 8.--Sam Langford got the decision over Joe Gans at the Criterion Athletic Club tonight. In the first three rounds Langford was clearly a bit afraid of Gans, and even when he got up more courage failed to take full advantage of his many chances. Had he had more confidence in himself and swung in he could have stopped the negro. Gans weighed in at 135¼, and Langford a trifle over 140. The first three rounds were easily Gans', Langford having all he could do to keep out of the colored man's way. In the fourth he got some of his courage up and went after Gans, repeating it in the fifth and sixth. In the seventh and eighth honors were about even, but Langford again got after Gans in the ninth. The tenth was an even thing, but the remaining five rounds were Langford's. In the thirteenth he all but had Gans going, and a little more ginger put into his work then might have settled the colored man. From a technical point the bout was a first class one. Both men led well, blocked well and ducked well. Gans was outpointed and did not appear at all up to his usual form. It was said after the bout that he had been severely attacked with stomach trouble this afternoon, hence his poor condition.
Dec. 9, 1903 The Sun (New York, NY) Page 14 JOE GANS DEFEATED. Sam Langford Gets Decision Over Him in Fifteen Round Bout. Boston, Dec. 8.--Sam Langford, a local colored boxer who has been rapidly forging to the front in the lightweight division in the last year, easily won the decision over Champion Joe Gans of Baltimore in a fifteen round bout at the Criterion A. C. to-night. Gans weighed in at 138 pounds, while Langford was two pounds over, and the wrangling over this matter caused delay in the appearance of the pair in the ring. Both men appeared to be in excellent condition when they stripped. In the first three rounds there was practically nothing done by either fighter, except to fiddle and dance around the ring. Langford lacked confidence, and Gans was kept busy following him. Gans managed to land a few light blows, which had no other effect than to encourage Langford. Beginning with the fourth round, Langford showed more courage and there was a little more doing, the Baltimore man landing several stiff body blows and rights to the face, while Langford showed that he had a long and powerful left. Gans had the better of the going in the fifth round also, but in the sixth the local man began sending his left home to his opponent's face. Honors were even in the seventh and eighth rounds also. From the eighth until the end of the bout it was all one way. Langford assumed the aggressive and simply jabbed his opponent all over the ring, landing on the face, but occasionally he whipped his right over hard to the face. Gans was worried, and what blows he did send home lacked steam. Several times he sent in hard body punches and a few rights to the face, but he was outclassed.
Dec. 11, 1903 The Sun (Baltimore, MD) Page 9 GANS RETAINS TITLE Fight With Langford In Boston Did Not Affect It. BOTH WERE OVER WEIGHT Langford, However, Was Much The Heavier Of The Two -- Herford Says Referee Was Unfair. The question of whether Joe Gans lost his title of champion lightweight when Langford was given the decision over him in Boston Tuesday night has been pretty definitely settled, and Joe still rests with the title securely his. In regard to this, the Boston Herald said yesterday: Since the Gans-Langford bout at the Criterion A. C. on Tuesday evening the all important question has been: "Is Langford the lightweight champion of the world?" Though langford won the contest it does not necessarily follow that he gets the title with the decision for several reasons. In the first place, though the match was advertised at lightweight, the men also had to weigh in at 138 pounds. This alone question (sp?) the idea that it was a lightweight contest, for the legitimate weight for this class is 133 pounds. Neither Gans nor Langford was down to this in Tuesday evening's contest. Langford, in fact, entered the ring as a welterweight, having failed to make the required weight for the contest, while Gans was under the weight called for in the match, but even then not a legitimate lightweight. The surprising feature of Gans' work was his all-around slowness and the absence of power in his punches, although he repeatedly landed hard on Langford. In the ring Gans was as good as ever and received very little punishment. He simply lay back during the contest and like many champions depended upon his title to again win for him, but the Criterion Club makes a point to declare winners on their merits and thus Gans' defeat. When asked if Langford can claim the lightweight championship of the world James J. Jeffries, champion heavyweight of the world, said: Langford can by no means claim the championship, as both boxers would have had to fight at 133 pounds if the title was at stake. Just because Gans lost to a man who weighed in the welterweight class, it does not follow that he would if they were both down to weight, and the only way Gans can lose the championship is by fighting at weight with a man of weight. This statement was agreed to by Joe Egan, Jeffries' manager, Joe Kennedy, George S. Harris and several other sporting men, and seems to be the consensus of opinion among the close followers of boxing. Gans and his manager, Al Herford, arrived in town last night from Boston. Gans looked none the worse from his battle in which he lost a decision. In speaking of the affair, Manager Herford said: "The worst Joe should have had was a draw, and if the referee had been honest he certainly would have made it so. But the longer a man like me stays in the boxing game the more he finds out how unfair these false alarm referees are. The very idea of the fact that I allowed Gans to box was enough to think that the champion would get a square deal. Why this fellow Langford weighed at least 145 pounds when he entered the ring on Tuesday night. Now, to show the public how the matter stands, as probably lots of fight fans who have Gans' interests at heart, might think I made a mistake for allowing Gans to fight a fellow that heavy, I will relate the circumstances. "About 7:45 Tuesday night Langford's manager came to me at the door and said "Al, how about if Langford is half a pound overweight?" I said, "He will have to get it off," and he says the time is too short. "Well," I said, "I will give you until 9 o'clock," and he went away and thanked me for doing same. He came back about 8:20, and I said, "I suppose Langford is out taking off that half a pound," and he immediately spoke up and said, "Why, we weighed in at 8 o'clock as per articles of agreement." I said I never saw him weigh. Langford's manager Mr. Keevin said: "Well I don't care. I weighed in and that is all there is to it." I then went and got Mr. Miah Murray, who runs the club, and he said, "Why, Al, I never saw him weigh in. Well both of us got Langford's manager and asked him to weigh in, and he refused. After talking about 10 (sp?) minutes he got Langford, and Gans got on the scales. The beam was set at 138 pounds, and Gans never raised the beam, so I said, "I will just show you what Gans weighs, and I did, which was 135¼. Then Langford got on and he raised the beam, which meant he was a lot over the 138 pounds. Well, I pushed the slide of the scales up to 140 and at that it still stayed up, but Kevin then stepped up and said, "Jump off, Sam, don't let him see your weight, and Langford got off. I am positive he weighed 142 pounds. After that he ate a large steak and vegetables, and I am positive he surely weighed 145 pounds, when he entered the ring. "Now, of course, I am a bit to blame for allowing Joe to go on with Langford, but rather than disappoint the audience and Mr. Murray, who is a square and thorough gentleman, I took a chance. Mr. Buckley, the referee, knew all of this, and he ever roasted Langford and Keevin for doing that sort of thing, but that was only a bluff to keep me from objecting to him refereeing the bout. In reference to Mr. Buckley's qualities as a referee, I suppose the people who read Boxing Notes will agree with me. He has had bottles, chairs and leather cushions thrown in the ring at him more than once on account of his unfair and rotten decision. "The decisions that Langford got won't do him any good, as the match was a handicap affair, and no title was lost, and the papers will all hear me out in that statement. "I want to say that Joe Gans, the lightweight champion of the world, will box Langford at 138 pounds (ringside) for a side wager of $5,000. The only thing I want stipulated in the articles is that Mr. Buckley shall not officiate as referee, or if Langford won't accept, I will let Gans meet any other lightweight in the world from 133 to 138 pounds at the ringside, Jimmy Britt preferred. Of course, I can't afford to box Britt in San Francisco at 133 pounds ringside, but will box him anywhere in the East at that weight. I will let Gans box him in San Francisco for the lightweight title at 135 pounds ringside. If Britt won't accept, I will let Gans box Jack Blackburn, of Indianapolis, the boy who some of the Philadelphia papers said bested Gans about four weeks ago in the Quaker city in a six-round bout. No doubt all these lightweights think that Joe has gone back. Well, let them come to the front and make a match, the sooner the better. Britt, Holly, Langford or Jack Blackburn of Indianapolis, who is now making Philadelphia his home."
I see the December 7, 1903 'Evening Times' (Pawtucket, R.I. newspaper) say's Sam was born at Calais, Maine on June 15, 1880. Of course, he was born in Nova Scotia. No clue where they came up with the June 15, 1880 date. Here's some more notes I have on the issue: From series of Langford articles published in 1924 - Sam: “I was born March 4, 1886 in Nova Scotia on a farm near Weymouth, and I guess I ought to know because I was there when it happened wasn’t I?" Weymouth Falls is two miles from the town of Weymouth, in the lush Annapolis Valley country of Nova Scotia. Sam was born to Robert (son of Charles and Susan Langford), and Charlotte Langford. Robert was born to Charles & Susanna Langford on December 20, 1844, Salmon Ridge, Nova Scotia. Previously Charlotte Alice Robart (daughter of Samuel Robert). Robert and Charlotte were married on November 27th of 1869. The two residents of Weymouth were married in late 1869 when Robert was 26 and Charlotte was just sixteen. Robert’s profession was listed as ‘marinor’ on the marriage certificate Both were Baptists. (Note: Years later there would be some question as to Sam’s actual age. Since he began fighting at such a young age and had so many fights by an early age, many people assumed he must be older. But the man who would later become his manager (Joe Woodman) tracked down a copy of Sam’s birth certificate in Nova Scotia and proved his date of birth was in fact March 4, 1886.) Belle Langford-Barnes said he only had three brothers named Walter, Amos, and Charles – and in fact some paperwork Rosemarie sent me only named Walter born 1883, Amos born 1888, and Charles born 1879 as well, and in terms of sisters only named Annie born 1874, and Sophia born 1877)
Would it be fair to say the average opinion is: "An out of shape johnson loses to peak langford in 1913 but knowing the opponent johnson would come to fight in shape"
Thats my take on it, with the added note that in November of 1913 ,Langford scaled 199.5lbs for a fight with Jeannette, so it is conditional on both men being in shape.
I think that is pretty much spot on Luf. The only stipulation I would personal add would be: Even an average Johnson would beat Sam in 1913. While I believe he would train, knowing who he is facing, I don't think he would have to train like a worldbuster to still beat Sam. Just my opinion but overall I think your conclusion was spot on.
I do believe he would have to train like a world beater tho. Sam was no push over. Also agree with mcvey in principle: an out of shape johnson beats an out of shape langford.
Johnson scaled his particular mountain in Jeffries, which brought him untold wealth and fame. After that, his life really fell apart outside of the ring and he became a part-time fighter, fighting rarely and not looking that good against journeyman level opponents. The 1913 Johnson was there for the taking. Johnson's unwillingness to meet in a rematch is what also makes me favor Langford here. I go for Langford by KO.
Johnson is said to have been unimpressive against Flynn but he looked decent enough to me despite having been off for years. Flynn of course was very crude and fouled himself out of the fight, but Johnson was peppering his with a steady stream of jabs and uppercuts. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7ZDut_33_M[/ame]
Johnson & Johnson,.... mate from what I've read so far, I give Langford no chance. Jack Johnson is too big and Sam is overweight ( Les Darcy at 35 ?? ) and Johnson beat Langford very easily in the previous fight. It may be a partisan Newspaper report for Johnson, but it was Senya's site I read it from and it seems Jack was just a bridge too far for Sam.... guy's there is a limit to what a human bodt can do....... One Johnson V Langford fight was enough...... I hate the idea of Nasty Jack beating Sam to a pulp while Fack sneers and laughs through the fight,,,,,,,,,------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Being the beaten man in a Johnson fight must be nightmarish.