[1955] Don C0ckell on Marciano's Power

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Dec 16, 2019.

  1. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nowhere in my post did i say rocky DIDN'T have knockout power. That's your problem, you are reading what you want to read, getting emotional and creating straw man arguments to respond to. Im saying rocky is quite clearly not a put your light's out 1 hitter quitter type of puncher compared to some other heavyweights. He had a few but most of them are over guys who lacked size, chin, and were often old and shopworn. These are facts.

    He doesn't have early KO's over young durable contenders other than layne, who proved to not be very durable after fighting rocky (6 stoppage losses). He needed 11 rounds to BREAK DOWN Lastarza, it wasnt an early or even mid rounds ko. Invalid example.

    Being a volume puncher doesnt mean you cant get kos. It simply means that you usually take longer to score a ko. Frazier is one of my favorite boxers and i have no problem calling him a volume puncher. One of his best wins (Mathis) he had to break down over time to get the ko.

    Keep ignoring what i wrote and dancing around the fact most of Rocky's ko victims lacked durability and yet he still needed several rounds to get them out of there. You are proving my point. Not a single rocky opponent gets mentioned as being very durable in discussions about chin, what does that tell you?
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Yes the Reynolds and Donato fights would be instructional ,as well as entertaining.
     
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You literally just said he had KO power and then tried to down play it lol. How can you be rationalized with? Believe what you’d like I’ve broken it down to you in the simplest of forms and you still don’t get it. Douglas was also knocked out by others doesn’t mean Tyson didn’t have power. Young was knocked out by nobodies doesn’t mean Foreman lacked power. These arguments don’t make any sense from a boxing standpoint as every fight is different. Styles are important context is important. You saying he didn’t knock out anyone in prime who had a good chin is false. Layne was prime and had never been knocked out same for Lastarza. Point was he stopped people who were never stopped. He’ll put thag poor kid Vingo in a coma. He had one punch power and could grind you it really is that simple yet I’m wasting time arguing this point over and over again. Show me all these great fighters please who could knock out opponents quicker then Marciano’s with a better list of knock outs on it?
     
  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’d bet you....just need a time machine
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    I bought my first films of Marciano in 1966, a collection of his fights on super 8mm reel from Black Hawk films.
     
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  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    All that’s available online now? Any stuff no ones seen?
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    agreed but he might have looked worse vs Savold.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You can see a few moments of the Vingo fight. There also a Marciano fight that was broadcast on tv, but not filmed that could be out there. I forget the name of the opponent.
     
  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lastarza was an 11th round ko. Layne wasnt very durable. You are either an idiot or you are skimming through my posts (or both).

    When someone says "early" ko they usually mean within 1-3 rounds. I'll be generous and say 5 rounds.

    My request is very simple and should be easy to fulfill: Name ONE durable boxer marciano stopped within 5. Just one. Durable meaning a guy who there is a unanimous consensus that they had a decent chin and weren't shopworn.

    Ive got all day
    .
     
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  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I named several but you don’t care. I’ll say again name me a fighter with a better resume who knocked out fighters quicker. Shouldn’t be hard considering how poor you think the rocks resume is? You may have unrealistic expectations as to when power punchers actually knock people out. Because I’ll repeat for the hundredth time Marciano was the seventh fastest KO artist in history at HW. Now there must be a whole list of people w better resumes so please find them and come back.
    Ps Laynes career was over after the Marciano fight as any person can see. Completely stopped training often coming in 15-20 pounds heavier then he should have been. Lastarza was never stopped so that would be a good KO. I’ll patiently await this long list of power punchers with better scalps not names Tyson Louis Foreman Liston Lewis and I think the sixth was Tua (have to check that one).
     
  11. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Unrealistic expectations"? If you claim rocky is this devastating 1 punch 1 hitter quitter type fighter then there is nothing unrealistic in expecting that he has at least a few early KO's over some good durable fighters.

    There is nothing unrealistic in me setting the parameters to 5 rounds. That's very early. A boxing match is only 12-15 rounds.

    The fact you mentioned lastarza yet again tells me you must have some sort of mental health or reading disability. That stoppage occured in the 11th, which is late. And what you wrote isnt even true he was KO'd by Julio Mederos in 5 rounds.

    I dont care about the excuses for layne not training seriously I have only ever seem marciano fans bring this up. The facts of the matter are that anyone with 6 ko losses isnt very durable. Its hilarious that you guys mention how just 1 loss apparently ruined a young prime layne forever but 38 year old Moore, Walcott or 36 year old savold who all had several brutal ko losses were apparently still tough quality fighters. The hypocrisy!

    I'll give you one more chance. Name a Durable fighter he stopped within 5?
     
  12. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How about that list of great punchers with better scalps who knocked out guys quicker? I’ll wait. I mean Marciano’s resume is so damn weak there must be a list a mile long of guys with better scalps.
    FYI 31 of his 49 fights ended within 5 so u pick
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Devotee of the Little Red Book Full Member

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    What was the point of this thread? I forget.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    These ko opponents of Marciano's were kod quicker by other fighters before facing Marciano.
    Muscato 3 times
    Henri 5 times
    Beshore 2 times
    Reynolds 2 times
    Walcott 3 times
    Charles 2 times
    Cokkell 4 times
    Moore 4 times
     
  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What does that even mean? Tooney knocked Holyfield must be stronger then Tyson Foreman and Lewis. See how that argument holds no water?