Jimmy Young made EVERYBODY look bad. Larry Holmes said just that. All in all, Jimmy was an incredibly slick and talented defensive wizard with an underrated chin. That being said, what killed Foreman in the Young fight was: a) His reluctance to throw punches. George was always a huge profit for the matchmakers and could attract huge attention and crowd with his power and stalking, straight to business style. That being said, it didn't sit well with people making profit from ads. King wanted George to wait a bit before the knockout so they could play and Foreman did as much, not doing much. When he actually got to business, he nearly killed Young in the 7th round. Jimmy said that he was pretty much seconds from being knocked out cold. Unfortunately.. b) Heat and humidity. Quarry described Foreman as a great strength fighter: he was extremely well drilled at using his size and muscles to manipulate and unbalance his opponents. The very same size and muscle mass however meant higher oxygen demand and much more demanding stamina management, especially since he was going for the knockout more often than not. It just so happened that both Ali and Young fights took place in Zaire and Puerto Rico. Both in extreme heat and extreme humidity (vastly inferior evaporation of sweat, the crucial way of regulating body temperature.) Bottom line, the clock was ticking for Foreman much faster in those two fights that it would normally (he went the distance beforehand and generally had quite good gas tanks.) Combine it with inappropriate game plan and attitude in both fights (arrogance, blind corner and power drunk in Ali fight; ads, changed trainer, and overall poor mental state in Young bout) and you have a disaster in the making. In my opinion, should those two fights take place in modern facilities with proper conditioning (the ring in Zaire collapsed in a mass of wood and mud after the rain for God's sake) Foreman would had a much better chance for a come back even with all those circumstances. As to why people don't consider Foreman slow and sloppy: it's because he wasn't. How can you brand a man slow and sloppy when: 1) His entire defense composed of parries, leverage blocks, catches, and head movement/leans. Very, very active defense. Almost no blocking. It took a great amount of reflexes and coordination to pull that off. Generally speaking, George was both quite fast and well coordinated when he needed to. 2) He cut ring like few boxers in history, both before and after, could. Joe Louis admired his bouts and after before Zaire Foreman was actually compared to him, likely because they were both amazing stalkers and very effective finishers. Naturally, George had a much more inconsistent career compared to Louis.
Healthy amount of doubt is understandable. That being said, I have sources for pretty much every information I've posted, bar Joe Louis enjoying Foreman's fight. I'd have to dig deeper for that because I'm not certain if I still have the screenshot on my phone.
Not much use in presenting the Louis quote since he thinks Louis was trash and dominated a trash era. I don't think he would value Louis' opinion at all. You could provide quotes from 50 different trainers, historians, and boxers praising a boxer he doesn't like and he'll stick with his own opinion. Just a fair warning. That being said, your post was articulate, well structured, and logical. Foreman was definitely not sloppy and people have no clue what they're looking at. When he beat Frazier, he picked him apart with a superb game plan, it wasn't just rush in there and spam uppercuts. The losses you discussed had just as much to do with the hot, muggy environment and his poor strategy/mental state as it did the opponents. A stiff body builder like Joshua would be gasping for air and drained completely within 4 rounds in those scenarios.
that is all quotes you read online which I dont like most know that here about me I like words from a person own thoughts and views I wanna know in your view do you think George could beat jim or ali
Those were my own words and thoughts, bar the obvious indirect quotations (Holmes, Louis.) I think pre-Zaire Foreman would murder Jimmy under normal circumstances. Ali of 74'? Definitely, it was well within his power to beat him. Ali's victory in Kinshasa feels like destiny when you take into account the amount of circumstances involved (Foreman and his corner being power drunk; George being cut and not sparring for nearly twenty days before going into the ring; the location; Foreman treating Ali like another knockout victim to the point he didn't even watch his tape.) Granted, it had to be Muhammad. It had to be that blazing combination of granite chin, indominable will, knowledge and experience, defensive wizardry and skill. You say that: "yea pushing works to people who can counter advantage why dont people get that" but when it comes to me personally: it boggles my mind that people consider Zaire and Puerto Rico a display of George's consistent performance and a proof that he and his best, serious, and prepared, would fall so flat against pure boxers with good defense.
what could George do with jim cause he did lose to ali before that George was just not the right style to beat him or ali same with larry had he fought him it doesnt matter which state George was in he still always had power his style wasnt right which you gave him a excuse the only excuse is he wasnt the right style
so he doesnt use upperbody movement good from angles and able to pick shots good so thats bad movement cause i remember jim and ali using angles of their shots and landing punches from their good upperbody movement with ease on George maybe you forgot im still waiting on that list that I asked for which tells me where I cant talk on a topic but only a certain number of times
Joshua doesn't move good. He looks good against stationery guys like Pulev and cemented feet obese tubs of lard like Ruiz. Joshua woukd have a better chance just slugging it out with Foreman and even then his chances are slim You can actually, but it's incredibly annoying. All you do is bump newer vs classic threads 7 times a day and talk about how old school fighters "moved bad" or something like that