9 years ago today: Érik Isaac "El Terrible" Morales Elvira vs. Marcos "El Chino" René Maidana

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Apr 9, 2020.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    396,299
    78,555
    Nov 30, 2006
    This content is protected


    That whole last couple of years of El Terrible's career is some bizarre Twilight Zone mierda. :dunno

    From the middle of 2007 until his return in early 2010, it was accepted boxing canon that Morales' last hurrah was the mild upset over Manny Pacquiao in their first encounter - and that he was shot and useless beyond that. Losing to a middling Zahir Raheem was seen as the death knell, and nobody was surprised when Pac crushed him in both of their rematches (with successively greater ease in each). In fact, the weak beta male shrinking violet of Pac III bears almost no resemblance whatsoever to swashbuckling legend El Terrible with his brash devil-may-care southpaw-switching ass from Pac I - let alone the actual prime version of Morales that blazed a three division trail of world championships, endeared himself to Mexican fans and ensconced himself in the country's top 5 modern (if not all time) sentimental favorites, and fought that ATG trilogy with Marco Antonio Barrera.

    The guy has zero business making a comeback approaching his mid-thirties, with that much wear and tear and such obvious signs of decline. By rights he shouldn't have been able to snatch up even minor titles at welter and light welter - but he did. In fights with José Alfaro, Willie Limond, and Francisco Lorenzo he certainly didn't look good, by his illustrious standards, but he did look, quite inexplicably, better than he did in his most recent super feather & lightweight appearances. Then he stepped up to a world class trio all smack-dab in their primes - defeating the weakest of them (Pablo César Cano), losing against the best of them (Daniel Óscar García - first by competitive UD, then by KO) ...and going 50-50 against the guy in the middle. Some will look at his brief renaissance and shrug it off, saying he was in fact shot post-Raheem and subsequently lost to everybody he should've - but to say that is to discredit a near-miraculous resurgence and some very impressive h2h performances (in Maidana, Cano, and even García I) after the point when he shouldn't have been capable of anything in that ballpark.

    As for Maidana, he also had a strange run of things. He's what I call a "nudge case". You can take most of his biggest fights, and give them a slight nudge in either direction without too great a reality-bending leap (alter one scorecard or two from the official judges; swing a ref's discretion call on a knockdown or point deduction the other way; have somebody beat a count or avoid one particular ruinous shot) and drastically reshape his legacy. Imagine he gets the nod over Floyd Mayweather Jr.?? :eek: Even his other two debatable points losses, tipped in his favor, (Khan and Kotelnik) would have bumped perceptions of him from "overachieving brawler" to "respected champion". That said, however, you can also take a dimmer view of him if you nudge him with an eye towards negative critique. He got badly schooled in his other two defeats (Mayweather II and Devon Alexander), pretty humiliatingly so for a top fighter. You can just as easily make the case for him going 0-5 in those losses as the more flattering 3-2 - and furthermore you can point to his best actual victories and pick them apart without stretching truth much. Victor Ortiz was doing pretty well against Maidana (winning on all three cards) until his glass heart broke and he basically quit. El Chino also was pushed life and death by a faded DeMarcus Corley in a fight closer than reflected on the official cards. Josésito López was kicking his ass before getting kayoed. JSK gave him absolute hell, and could be up on a reasonable scorecard as of the stoppage as well. And of course there is the Morales fight, in which many feel he at best should've netted a draw. You can make the case that his greatest uncomplicated victories (where he clearly established himself the better man) are Broner, Petrov and Cayo. Decent, but not by any means great. :nono:


    So we have a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee and national treasure who may or may not have been shot to bits (and paradoxically both kinda was and kinda wasn't) versus a guy whose actual p4p worth figured somewhere between "passing fair overachieving contender/belt-holder" and "underrated elite boxer-slugger who got a couple of unlucky breaks and only ever lost decisively to a pair of extremely slick operators who proved stylistic foils (in PBF's case, reversing things after Maidana had been his stylistic foil the first time)". With all that confusing ambiguity coming in from both sides, how does one know what to expect when they meet??

    Well...in this particular case, you get a barn-burning classic. :deal:


    Here is a fresh re-scoring, with just quick-sketch notation (instead of a redundant detailed blow-by-blow, given my already having done it on the night).

    Érik Isaac Morales Elvira vs. Marcos René Maidana, 12 rounds @ light welterweight


    1. Round 1: 10-9 Maidana, pretty dominant.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana)
    2. Round 2: 10-9 Maidana, old boy trying in there but looking old, already battered & swollen; 20-18 Maidana.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana, 20-18 Maidana)
    3. Round 3: 10-9 Morales, got the jab flowing and mojo working, and has Maidana thrown off his game a bit; 29-28 Maidana.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 29-28 Maidana)
    4. Round 4: 10-9 Morales, showing very sharp timing and defensive awareness, making the more forceful stuff miss as Maidana chases and lunges to head and body, only jabs reliably scoring for the Argentine now for the most part although he does tag Morales with a hurtful overhand late and nearly steal it back in the last fifteen seconds; 38-38.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 38-38)
    5. Round 5: 10-9 Morales, very precise although Maidana is taking Morales a bit more seriously now, with less wild attacking from misjudged ranges, clamping down on him with suffocating pressure, grinding inside work and powerful clap-downs from above...Morales standing his ground and not letting himself be physically overwhelmed or pinned down on the ropes, shoving to create space and countering very well, even putting Maidana on the backfoot at times; 48-47 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 48-47 Morales)
    6. Round 6: 10-10, ultra close, arguably Morales got outworked but also rolling most oncoming punches, letting them bounce off the nape of his neck, and landing far straighter & neater stuff...last half-minute is WAR; 58-57 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana, 57-57)
    7. Round 7: 10-9 Morales, cruising on that be-first jab, getting stuck in when Maidana practically baseball-slides face-first into counters, dipping his shoulders while leaning back playing rope-a-dope, slipping overhands left and right and making a ****** of Maidana; 68-66 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 67-66 Morales)
    8. Round 8: 10-9 Morales, commanding the middle of the ring, hackles up, even managing to stun Maidana, though it becomes a more competitive grinding inside melee a couple of minutes later as fatigue catches up; 78-75 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 77-75 Morales)

      Jim Watt at this juncture has it 77-75 Morales, giving him the second, fourth, fifth, seventh and eighth.
    9. Round 9: 10-9 Maidana, close, aggressive with smothering uppercut and sickle combos, has Morales shrimping up and in retreat, then upon gassing himself out a bit Maidana skips away, huffing, lobbing defensive jabs, and then winging arm punches when Morales tries rushing to press the advantage; 87-85 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana, 86-85 Morales)
    10. Round 10: 10-9 Morales, playing matador, giving his legs a break and staying within reach of Maidana's punches but the brunt taken on the backs of his arms while poking out counter jabs and crosses down the pipe; 97-94 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Morales, 96-94 Morales)
    11. Round 11: 10-9 Maidana, big-time rally by El Chino, murdering the body of Morales with diving kamikaze hooks, Morales finding him like Otis Redding in 1968 (too hard to handle :deal:); 106-104 Morales
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana, 105-104 Morales)

      Jim Watt at this juncture has it 105-104 Morales, giving Maidana the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, and 11th.
    12. Round 12: 10-9 Maidana, like a bat from hell, swarming and mostly hitting arm, but cuffing Morales on the back of the head plenty... Morales dropping his elbows to protect his midsection and thrusting both forearms out to shove Maidana into straight-punching range, but lacks the stamina to make good and is taking some major lumps; 115-114 Morales.
      (IB's 2011 score: 10-9 Maidana, 114-114 draw)


    So, pretty much the same, only "flipped" a single round - and not even a full reciprocation, just made it from 10-9 into even.

    EyeOnTheRing aggregate fan scoring: 115-113 Maidana (R1-3, 6, 9, 11-12 Maidana; 4-5, 7-8, 10 Morales)


    Here is the original RBR: https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...ales-action-heroes-full-undercard-rbr.302385/
     
    DKD, POTUS, CST80 and 1 other person like this.
  2. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

    9,479
    10,442
    Nov 5, 2017
    I had it a draw. But however one scores it, Morales going 12 and managing to be highly competitive was an extraordinary outcome, considering he was running on fumes of his greatness. People were worried for his health going into this bout, let's not forget.
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  3. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

    7,672
    9,378
    Jun 26, 2019
    Let's not forget that old and faded obesatron Morales also made things very uncomfortable for Danny Garcia.

    :deal:
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  4. navigator

    navigator "Billy Graham? He's my man." banned Full Member

    9,479
    10,442
    Nov 5, 2017
    Morales got the short end of the stick that night;
    The scorecards were awful, Erik frequently had Garcia looking like a fool in there the first time.

    One of his career signatures here;
    This content is protected


    Awesome disguise, the relaxation and nonchalance of a consummate vet.


    Erik was able to hang in those fights only by dint of pure lifelong craft and character. There was nothing else going for him.
     
    Reinhardt and IntentionalButt like this.
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    396,299
    78,555
    Nov 30, 2006
    I didn't forget; I mentioned that in my OP. :deal: So why you quoting like I'm some ignorant foo, now, foo??
     
    Pakkuman likes this.
  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,723
    229,743
    Nov 23, 2013
    :thumbsup: I had it the same, although I forgot which rounds I gave to who, I loved this match, I might watch it... for a fourth time. You know I'm a sucker for old guys doing it one more time, especially when one of the old guys is one of my all time favorite boxers.
     
    Reinhardt and IntentionalButt like this.
  7. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman I'm not hot. I'm just BIG. banned Full Member

    7,672
    9,378
    Jun 26, 2019
    I skim.

    :D
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  8. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

    49,391
    15,416
    Jul 19, 2004
    Oh goodness! That was NINE years ago now?
     
  9. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,868
    10,026
    Oct 29, 2012
    I recall Morales v JMM was being considered around that time. IIRC, JMM didn't care for it.
     
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

    396,299
    78,555
    Nov 30, 2006
    Just as well. It only would have given Dinamita haters more fuel (as they would invariably downplay how much El Terrible was clearly turning back the clock in that span from 2010-2012).
     
  11. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,868
    10,026
    Oct 29, 2012
    True... but **** what hater say anyway. They get too much credit for their BS they spread. I would have loved to see it, tho I'd have favored JMM.
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  12. 22JM

    22JM Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,452
    3,927
    Sep 10, 2016
    Morales was shot to pieces, more than 90% in here were picking Madiana to kill Morales, glad that didn't happened and he gave madiana hell , As for a Marquez fight at that time, Marquez would've stopped that version of Morales, Glad that fight didn't happen... Another thing, Madinana was very lucky that eye was almost close in the very first round.
     
  13. The Real Lance

    The Real Lance Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,868
    10,026
    Oct 29, 2012
    I don't care about your opinion on JMM v Morales....or anything for that matter.
     
  14. iii

    iii Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,832
    4,085
    May 3, 2016
    "....Another thing, Madinana was very lucky"
    Unlike your poor Mother....what a dissapointment...
     
  15. 22JM

    22JM Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,452
    3,927
    Sep 10, 2016
    Lmfao you ggg cheerleaders take things very seriously and personal, you fools are worst than chicks, bunch of crybabies sensitive b!7ches