A comparison of Liston and Usyk's best opponents

I would probably rate Marciano as a light heavyweight rather than a cruiserweight because the heavyweights of that era are actually closer in size to today's light heavyweights than cruiserweights.

 

Where is the evidence of “others” understanding you?

I’ve only read evidence to the contrary.

Bellew fought primarily as a CW - and he was a CW when Usyk defeated him.

Should we then also say that David Haye lost to a CW - the same version of Bellew that Usyk defeated AT CW?

Would that then impugn Haye, as you endeavoured to impugn Holmes, when you incorrectly referred to Spinks as a LHW as at the time he defeated Larry?

I mean, Spinks didn’t just become “bad” moving from LHW to HW, did he? Michael weighed 212 1/4 lbs and he didn’t look fat.

Did Haye fight against an officially weighed in 199 1/4 lbs Bellew - as Usyk did?

Or, was Bellew some 10 lbs to 13 1/2 lbs north of the CW limit when he fought Haye? Bellew, at his heaviest weight, being a mere 1 1/4 lbs heavier than the 212 1/4 lb “LHW” Spinks who beat Holmes?

Lol, I’m not limited to taking it or leaving it, I can also dispute it, as and when I see fit.

 

Mackie Shilstone and Spinks took gaining weight to new scientific highs in boxing. It was insane how astutely and effectively they accomplished the goal and it went an enormous way towards Spinks massive upset.

The article below is great reading and it shows what was actually going on per Spinks not only moving up but also when taking off weight to make 175. The various weights vs bodyfat percentages show us Spinks was not just a "LHW".

https://vault.si.com/vault/1985/10/07/a-champ-with-strange-ideas

 

Liston.54 Fights
Faced men over190lbs 44 times.
Faced men over 200lbs 24 times.
Faced men under 180lbs 1time.

Marciano.49 Fights
Faced men over 190lbs 23 times.
Faced men over 200lbs 9 times.
Faced men under 180lbs 5 times.
Marciano faced men 175lbs or under 5 times.

 

Yes most great HW fighters of that time fought in both eras and Marciano was a rare one who didn't. But he still fought at HW and even the LHWs he was fighting weighed more than 175 when he fought them.

 

Marciano faced men 175lbs or under 5 times.

 

I meant to say he fought LHWs at HW. I misspoke. I see what you mean in some cases those guys were still under 175 never mind.

 

Excellent article. Right on point. Cheers JT.

 

As to whether or not this is the case and, if there was any doubt before, then post #91 seals it.

 

Yeah, I'm kind of annoyed I wasted all my time with his nonsense after reading that post.

 

Rest assured that you're not alone in having undergone the experience.

 

If there's a general consensus that someone like Marciano would not be successful at heavyweight today and would have to compete at a lower weight division how is it unreasonable to rank them in that division?

Langford, Fitzsimmons, and Marciano were all successful a heavyweight but realistically people don't think that would be the case in later eras.

Nobodys claiming Langford can compete with Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe etc H2H or come close to replicating what he achieved in his own era in the 1990s.

 

Okay, still no actual address of the counter points I’ve submitted - and still no evidence of anyone being in agreement with you on those very points. Sweet.

 

I have no dog in this fight except that I have been a massive Usyk fan since his amateur days. I think the exercise is interesting, hard work and obviously thought provoking but,,, it seems beyond sensible debate that a fighter that achieves a decent rating, even a title, at one weight can be given the same kudos as somebody with similar achievements in a higher class. Put simply, Mike Hunter's rating of 9 at cruiser is not the same as DeJohn rating 8 at Heavy. I have little doubt that Hunter was better than DeJohn but that's just my opinion of something that never happened. If they were of equivalent value, then we have to consider a win over Glowacki the same as a win over Fury or Joshua etc. I take they wins over the top cruisers as respectable, adding something to Usyk's resumee and were a decent indication at the time that he would be a formidable opponent for most heavyweights, especially with his WSB accomplishments. Lots of these top cruisers would be heavyweights in most eras, it is true but the fact is they did not have a heavyweight rating when they lost to the man.
I think to ignore this is to demean your own excellent work.