Well, he looked a bit sloppy against Bruno and had new trainers in his corner. I think Bruno made him look a bit sloppy though, but I concede that he wasn't quite as sharp as againsy Spinks. Then again, when I view Berbick fight and then Bruno 1 I can see that if Berbick had been as strong-punching as Bruno and had held on, Tyson would probably had been made to look sloppy there too. Styles make fights. Of course some writers for the magazines want to periodically cast out the idea that "unbeatable champ X" is ready to be taken, it sells mags, and keeps interest high. They did the same with RJJ years before he lost, it's probably been done with Mayweather. But when fight time comes the same writers overwhelmingly pick the champion. Tyson was expected to beat Douglas easily. Yes, and Dempsey was expected to beat Tunney. But Dempsey was assumed to be past his best by 90% of people at least. Tyson was expected to reign for years by 90% of people at least. And many of them reckoned he was only going to get better.
Well unlike with RJJ the mag was correct. Yes he was still expected to dispose of Douglas yes. You stated nobody considered Tyson on the slide pre Douglas, i corrected it. Some were indeed wondering alound and writing as much for thousands to read. How could they not be with all that went on in his well documented personal life around the time.
Yes, what you're saying is true. Comparisons with Dempsey-Tunney are just way off, IMO, though. A 31 year old champ on a comeback is different to an active 23 year old champ. Where the fights are positioned on the respective timelines, in relation to previous and subsequent, and peak performances, tells a far different story. Anyway, enough about Tyson and Dempsey. Gene Tunney - he's a man who's rating has slipped considerable in the last 20+ years. I remember when I was a fan in the 80s he was always considered one of the heavyweight greats. Ali often mentioned him when listing the previous greats ("Gene Toooney" is how Ali pronounces) Maybe things have come full circle, since apparently he wasn't appreciated much in his own time. To me, Tunney looks, along with Dempsey, the best of the pre-Joe Louis champions by far.
The trouble for Tunney i wonder is that he only had a few meaningful battles at heavyweight and never won the 175 title. Tho you differ most cannot rate him at heavyweight on mostly two wins over a heavyweight you say was washed up. I wouldn't have him near the top 15 personally, but P4P would be a very different story. The mans record is incredible and he beat the likes of Greb multiple times as well as plenty of decent 175'ers. What's the go with him never fighting for the 175 title? Tho janitor has kittens over it i have an article somewhere (that i can't farking find dammit) that claims Tunney brought boxing forward a bit technically. I can't remember the finer points tho, but i am certain that was the story. It was all about the evolution of boxing and Tunney very definitely got a caption.
Tunney didnt do any thing about the so called evolution of boxing. I mean what were Benny Leonard, Tommy Loughran, Jack Delaney, and Lew Tendler doing?? Nothing, If any thing, all these guys were great boxers in there own right. Tunney more or less copy his style off of his idol Jim Corbett.
Well my article says other, and if for the life of me i ever find it (doubtful but possible) i will do a summary for sure.
Totally agree...I'm not a big Tunney fan particularly...but you need to give credit where it's due.:good I think it's reasonable to say that Tunney was ahead of his time with his boxing methodology. He was a forerunner to the more modern boxing technique and a great one.
I have stated in previous posts my belief that if Gene had continued as champion for as long as possible, he was going to continue improving for a while. I also made the case that Louis would have been the challenger to eventually dethrone Tunney by 15 round decision. While I believe that Toledo Jack would have forced a stoppage win over the Tunney of the Heeney swan song, we will never know how much better Gene may have become. My supposition is that he would have had the front half of the 1930s all to himself.
Dempsey was over-the-hill but I still have to marvel at the way in which Tunney handled him. Sharkey, a very good boxer in 1927, didn't look nearly as impressive against Dempsey, IMO. And Tunney got off the deck to beat Dempsey in another mostly dominating performance in a rematch. Tunney displays such a complete package of skills, strengths, and strategy against Dempsey, Gibbons and Heeney that it's obvious to me that his ability is on a par with just about anyone. I factor in that he was a strong 190-pounder with a decent punch, solid chin and great stamina, I draw my conclusion from that. He retired at his peak, making him somewhat unusual, any "enigma". I dont think Tunney "evolved" boxing skills and styles at all. He was just one of a few men in history who had a complete game and who happened to executed perfectly in his most famous and meaningful fights. Dempsey probably changed the way fighters fought more than Tunney because he made the commercial incentives to them to fight more in a more exciting style. He showed a scientific AND offensive style was in many was the most productive. Before Dempsey, there were a lot of boring fights, fighters who were tediously defensive, and a lot of the sluggers who went up against them were so raw and unpolished. Capentier sat on the 175 title for a while, kept the title outside of America, then lost to Battling Siki. Tunney had always really planned to go at Dempsey, so didn't press for a shot at the far less prestigous light-heavy title. The HEAVYWEIGHT championship was always his goal, he cut his teeth mostly on 175-pounders while he could still make the weight, and there were some damned good ones about. Most reports tend to suggest he really peaked after he put on the extra pounds though.
I also noticed that Ali mentions him often, despite Tunney being white. I think it's because Tunney fought a lot like Ali in that he ran and moved backwards and had a lot of speed. But i doubt Ali knew how shallow his resume at heavyweight was.
As far as I can gather, he'd promised the woman he intended to marry, a rich upper-class heiress. Tunney made 1 million dollars fighting Dempsey, a ridiculous amount at the time, and no one apart from Dempsey could offer him anything like that, nor the motivation.
And beyond that, his newly acquired fortune was not compromised by the 1929 Stock Market Crash, making the amount of money he was worth even that much more ridiculous. Furthermore, the Tunney/Heeney bout lost $152,000 for Tex Rickard. The 1920s gravy train finished it's run with Dempsey's retirement. Fight fans pay to see a killer, not a fancy boxer, especially in hardscrabble economic times.