Aj what level is he actually at?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by kevinreid001, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Defo unforgiven. That is the beauty of the heavyweight division. Saying all that about haye v joshua in my post. Thats what i honestly believe would happen. But if joshua came out and sparked haye in 2 rounds it wouldnt be the biggest shock in the world either. Joshuas a big powerful unit afterall.

    You ve never really got a safe bet with the heavyweights.
     
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  2. T_S_A_R

    T_S_A_R Member Full Member

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    David Haye's entire family must post on here.

    He's not fought in almost five years. He's had injury problems. He's put on a lot of weight. His best win is Chisora.

    Somehow this makes him the best heavyweight in the world....
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I agree.

    But these guys seem to be genuine true believers.
     
  4. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

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    ive had enough of picking holes in hayes character and resume, because theyre too many haye nuthuggers to deal with.
     
  5. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    You don't top the full twelve with Wlad if you don't have good movement.

    Joshua almost got laid out by WHYTE ffs. Haye would DECIMATE any of AJ's opposition.

    AJ is just too limited. His actual ring IQ is very low as he can blow people out. take that right hand away from him and he's useless.
     
  6. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Bang on, bud!
     
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  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Haye showed excellent head movement against Wladimir, but he fought almost an entirely defensive fight.
    He's never shown a great combined defensive-offensive skillset, when he's defensive his output is too low to be extreme dangerous, and when he's on the attack he leaves himself open and off-balance.

    You criticisms of AJ are valid. But Haye actually hasn't done much at HW to make him a good candidate to defeat AJ. Ever, nevermind recently.

    Haye's best win at Heavyweight is Dereck Chisora. His second-best win is a razor-close dull decision over Valuev, who'd been lucky to get a decision over a 46-year-old Holyfield in his previous fight.
    Honestly, this isn't much better than beating the pitiful likes of Whyte, Martin and Breazeale.
     
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  8. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You are talking before he had barley 10 fights or so, since then he is a complete different fighter and would knock wlad out in all likleyhood. the one guy who watched this sparring session stated Joshua held his own ..more than held his own it doesn't sound like anyone was out classed.
     
  9. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    Er, well it is when Chisora went the full twelve with Vitali, and Haye SPARKED HIM OUT.

    Chisora from that fight would beat AJ.
     
  10. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Vitali was well past his prime with injuries ,hence retiring. Vitali in early 2000's would crush Chisora. No version of Chisora would beat Joshua who is way to strong for him, and would spark him out faster than vitali or Haye because he hits harder and chisora would walk right to him like he does in every fight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2016
  11. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Hearn was never really going to make the Wlad fight; he knew the path Klitschko was going to take once Fury was forced to give up the belts, and that was an easy title fight of his own, back in the 'home' comforts of Germany. 'Fast car' was just buying AJ some publicity and credibility prior to another lame PPV opponent. Classic Matchroom...
     
  12. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tbf no ones saying hayes the best heavyweight in the world...just that his styles all wrong for joshua.
     
  13. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good point about the defensive/offensive output. But dont agree that hayes heavyweight resume isnt any better than joshuas. The guys haye beat were pretty much proven heavyweights. Breazeale martin and whyte havent really ever beaten anyone of note. You could go through ruiz, barrett valuev chisora and even harrison they ve at least got some names on their records. The same cant be said for whyte brazelle and martin. Wasnt just that but the manner haye done it was actually quite impressive. We lost count how many times ruiz and barrett went down. Chisora was stopped for the first time. In 5 rounds. Even harrison the first time haye punched him he stopped him up to that point i think only sprott had stopped him previously. Any other defeat he went the distance.

    Lets be honest valuev was a giant. Haye struggled with his size. And he went the full distance with wlad klitchko without taking too much punishment...not many last the distance with him.

    But without guys that had massive size advantage over haye he pretty much knocked senseless.

    Joshua struggled badly with whyte whos still unproven. Took him seven to get breazeale out of there. And done a job on martin. Both guys that have no offence to speak of. Whyte had an offence and he ended up causing big problems. The first guy that punched him back apart from cornish caused alarm bells.
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Vitali retired quite soon afterwards because he knew he wasn't much good any more.
    So Haye did better than a 41 year-old Vitali against Chisora .... but not really better than a 46-year-old Holyfield against Valuev.
    It is what it is. You want to rate Haye's heavyweight achievements as special as way above AJ's, then go ahead.
    I think they are both overrated, and Haye's achievements are only a little better.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    With all due respect, the fact that you've included some slight praise towards Audley Harrison and Haye's win over him does kind of underline the reality that you're bending over backwards to embellish the Haye resume.

    The way I see it, Audley Harrison was never a contender, not even slightly. He was also 39 years old. Sprott had sparked him, Rogan had outpointed him, Guinn had outpointed him, Williams had outpointed.

    Monte Barrett, a good journeyman, fringe contender, "gatekeeper" at best. 37 years old.

    Nicolay Valuev was 36 and looked older, he looked awful, and was 11 months inactive since the terrible Holyfield "fight". Of course he was giant and awkward but I thought he'd lost the Holyfield one and maybe one or two othes, apart from his official loss to Chagaev. Haye's performance didn't stand out at all.

    John Ruiz was 38 and hadn't won a fight against a genuine contender in a few years. Roy Jones Jr had beaten Ruiz easily enough when Ruiz was prime, 7 years earlier. And Jones was no heavyweight, nor even a proven cruiser.

    I think both Valuev and Ruiz were both well sick of the boxing business, and the end of the road, and I think they are among the worst of the fighters to hold 'world heavyweight titles' ever really.

    Dereck Chisora was a pretty good opponent, he'd gone the 12 with an old Vitali and he had been robbed against Helenius. Fury had outpointed him, but that's no real disgrace.
    And Haye won in style.
    I give credit where it is due.
    If Haye had more wins like that on his record he'd deserve much of the rating he's given by his enthusiasts.