"Ali-Marciano" '69 comp. fight...

Bill, re-watch the fight. Please. Rocky got hit with a big uppercut when he was leaning forward, off balance, and a shot he didn't see. And he got up at 3. The rest of the fight is Marciano dominating Archie. He punished him dropping him like 5 times or so. Moore was dead game by round 6 and kept getting saved by the bill and in complete survival mode. Archie won 1-2 rounds in that fight. HOW was he troubling Rocky for 7/9 rounds? That's the most ridiclious assertion I ever heard. Bonavena arguably beat Frazier over Moore troubling Rocky for 7/9 rounds.

Frazier has been staggered and hurt by lesser punchers. A bum in his 2nd fight had him down for an 8 count. That's more than Rocky was ever on the canvas his entire career.

Walcott troubles Frazier greatly in my opinion. More so than Ellis and Quarry did by far.

 

one thing Marciano had plenty of was Balls and I dont think anyone would be chasing him out of the Ring...Oscar Bonvena had Frazier down twice and I donr think even Bill (bigger is Better BIll) could say Oscar hit harder than Rocky.....on top of that Manual Ramos hurt Frazier bad in the 1st rd of there fight and Ramos only won 4 of his next 33 fights....

 

The myth still persists that pime Ali at 6'3 ...218 pounds...1963-1967 was unhittable...
Picture a prime Rocky Marciano in the ring with a 1966 Ali..and substitute The Rock for George Chuvalo.....Marciano was a force of nature....never stopped coming....Ali would have to fight 3 minutes of every round against Marciano..something he rarely did! No shuffles....no talking...no waving to the crowd...none of that ****! A left jab is not going to work against the best conditioned fighter who ever lived! Ali wanted to quit against Liston in their 1st fight in Miami in 1964 because something (possibly some kind of linament) got into his eyes!
He was pushed back out by Angelo Dundee.....NO QUIT in Marciano!
An EASY fight for Ali?......yeah,...and then you woke up!!!

 

Unreal - did he give you any pointers about what Marciano was like or anything?

 

Although I don't think it would as easy a win for Ali as MR. BILL thinks, I agree with him on the outcome. Ali's height, reach and speed would simply be too much for Rocky to overcome. Rocky's crouch would make it somewhat difficult for Ali to land cleanly at times and Ali would have to watch out for a surprisingly fast right hand or left hook that Rocky could send in behind that crouch but I don't see him landing often enough to win. If Ali stays on his toes and pumps that long jab and fast right continuously then Rocky will have to lunge at Ali and that spells trouble. If Rocky fought at the same speed as Frazier then he would stand a better chance but he didn't. He was slower. Too much size and speed I feel. Certainly wouldn't be a walk in the park for Ali but in the end I think he wins via decision or late round stoppage due to cuts.

 

If Ali and Rocky fought 5 times prime to prime, I think Rocky might win once or twice. During Ali's era some of Rocky's fights would be more prone to stoppage than they would be in Rocky's day because of Marciano's serious cuts, and it is hard to imagine Ali not cutting Rocky severely.

The computer fight is a rehearsed fantasy captured on film but it's great fun to watch Ali and Rocky moving around together in a ring. Ali's comments about it over the years suggest that in a real fight he would have taken a prime Marciano very seriously. During their artificial computer film activities together Ali must have been trying to project what the real Rocky might have been like to deal with.

 

Wow. Mr. Bill, you are a Rocky hater. You say that you respect him and all, but you don't give him anywhere near the respect that Ali himself gave him. He thought that Rocky was a little better than Frazier and would give him trouble. It was mid 70s and I think after the Thrilla in Manilla, but I'm not sure. It appeared to me to be a genuine assessment he gave during an interview with Howard Cossell. BTW, when forced to choose, I go with Ali.

 

I think that the ending was perfectly believeable and even probable as a prediction in 1969. But what people forget is that in 1969, it was thought that Ali had a poor chin and not that much heart. This was before his second career where his results probably went from a 4 out of 10 for these traits to a 9 or 10 out of 10. I am not sure how the program worked, but presumably if we knew about Ali then, what we did now, When Rocky dropped him in the 13th, Ali would get back, up, call on the legendary recuperative powers and at the very least, keep boxing, but more than likely start winning rounds. How was the points score after the 13th? Was Ali ahead, or would he be ahead if he won rounds 14 and 15?

 

Go to the interview at about the 5:25 mark .... Frazier makes some very interesting and possibly revealing comments about his troubles fighting short fighters ... makes you wonder a bit more about a Marciano match up ...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnRBbpXt7Pc[/ame]

 

I remember watching this on the TV. Some of you will remember a British heavyweight called Jack Bodell. Not the most skilled of pugilists. A journalist was commenting on Ali and Marciano fighting with a blank background outside of the ring instead of a crowd. Anyway this journo quipped "That's some crowd. Bodell must have been on the bill" Bit cruel,but funny. Regarding the 'fight' Marciano was looked upon as the all American boy,and Ali was still Public Enemy number one,as far as the American establishment was concerned,so it was inevitable that one of the endings featuring Marciano winning would be used. No disrespect intended to Rocky.

 

I think The Rock would certainly fare better against the 1970-75 version than the 1966-67 version.