Ali's career after Manila

With careful management, Ali could still be boxing today.

 

He'd take wilder in 6 .

 

Agree, but as I said, with careful management. He'd have to be matched with Wilder after the gruelling Dustin Nichols fight, that really took a lot out of Wilder.

 

Most press scoring favored Ali in both of these fights at the time, so yes, he did beat them.

 

Oh definitely, can't throw him in at the deep end

 

Norton deserved the decision at Yankee Stadium .. with all the Ali lover at the time the significant number of writers watching the fight felt Norton deserved the decision ... Ali absorbed more damage in the Shavers fight than any post Manila fight including against Holmes .. it was not a great ending to a legend.

 

The fight was a toss up. You can argue for either guy winning and Ali got the decision, so he beat Norton that day. As already pointed out before, most press scorecards favored Ali.

 

For the record, Schuyler scored the bout 9-6 Ali, and he did so without an ounce of doubt or regret.

"I don’t know what the controversy was about because I couldn’t see any," he declared. "Ali took the fight and Norton didn’t. Close? Yes. But close doesn’t count except in quakes. I’ve never, ever thought over the years that Norton might have won the fight. From where I sat, Ali dictated the pace with his jab and right hand. It was an even fight after eight rounds and then Ali took charge. Norton came forward, but you don’t get points just for coming forward. It was Ali’s fight and I have no qualms about the decision or the way I scored it."

- Ed Schuyler- International Boxing Hall of Fame Inductee For Writing

 

I believe Norton clearly won the rubber vs Ali.

Norton said that fight 2 could’ve gone either way but felt that he was robbed in fight 3.

Even during the telecast I’ve watched of the rubber match, it was as if, at one point, the commentators were beginning to write Ali’s epitaph, musing on how the sport could ever survive without him.

They also became overly excited when Ali merely danced or “shimmied” as they described it.

Rather than absorbing and properly describing the action going down before them, they seemed far more preoccupied with nostalgic notions and displaying undue excitement whenever Ali displayed even the slightest remnant of his former, better self.

As at the time, neither the sport or its pundits were quite ready to let go of Ali just yet.

I think Norton himself said he wasn’t just fighting the man, he was also fighting the legend. I think Ken was right on the money with that astute observation.

 

Harold Lederman, who, like Ed Schuyler was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame and went on to become HBO's official scorer scored it for Ali 8-7. Not every hotly contested fight was /is a robbery. An IBHOF writer and an IBHOF referee scored it for Ali.

 

You say it's a toss upo but you are in the minority . You seem to make a habit of dancing around the details. It's boring.

 

Appeal to popularity, or argumentum ad populum, is a logical fallacy. In any case, two members of the International Boxing Hall of Fame, a referee and a writer scored it for Ali. It would be hard to accuse the latter of bias as he scored their second fight for Norton. Ahhh, I believe it was CBS that assembled a panel with Joe Frazier on it. Joe scored it 8-7 for Kenny. If Joe could find seven rounds for Muhammad it's not unfathomable to find another round for him.

 

Manila should have been his last fight and others have said it before.

 

Great , and he was in the minority .. watch the tape and the finish and the announcers and the fighters at the bell and the crowd booing the decision ... live ... ( 1:17:10)

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Dick Young one of the announcers was later literally carried out of Larry Holmes's training camp for harassing Larry. As to the fight three judges scored it for Ali, one of the judges Harold Lederman was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for his outstanding work, and went on to be the official scorer for HBO. Ed Schuyler who was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame for his outstanding writing and scored the second bout for Norton scored the third fight for Ali. That indicates lack of bias to any dispassionate observer. He was close enough to the action he could see their breath in the mist of an October evebing. He even went back in 2010 to rescore it and with thirty four years of hindsight he didn't change his mind. Not every hotly contested decision is a robbery.