Ali's wins over Liston overrated?

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Sonny was so far over the hill of a fighter and yet he still was giving Martin a serious beating until Martin surprisingly caught him and put him to sleep .

Leotis Martin won the fight but Liston won the war .

Martin career ended right after that fight due to a detacthed retina .

Marty Marshal had a very awkward style and broke Liston jaw the first time they met , he even spoke about it .

"When I broke Liston jaw , he didn't even blink he just kept coming at me "

He won a split decision and became the first man to beat Sonny .

Liston later avenged his first loss in a rematch where he stopped Marshall in 6 rnds and then in a rubber match where Marshall once again loss to Liston but by decision this time around .

 

Like some say , Speed is power .

Liston was so overwhelmed by Alis speed and movement , he didn't know what the hell to do .

 

Sonnys punching power was inhuman at times .

I have no doubt his power was enough to take out much bigger fighters who weigh 240+ .

His 84 inch reach would trouble a lot of current heavyweights todays .

 

I read his stuff he's a clown

 

I dont rate liston as highly as everyone else. top 15 heavyweight. h2h he could be top 10. ali beats him, everytime.

 

Absolutely.

There's usually an arc to these things- people hate the active heavyweights. They retire, and that period looks better because the fans have moved on to the next one.

That will go on for awhile, so eras that were deemed weak in their own time will eventually get built up in to way more than they were. Then, enough time passes, and that hype dies.

Case in point- look at how Dempsey's era (and Dempsey himself) was viewed for a good 60 years after he retired, and look at it now. The biggest X factor is time.

We're in the peak now of how Liston and Ali's era will be viewed. 50 years from now, not so much- too many of the firsthand people and people one generation removed to spread the legend wont be around. Without the emotional investment, it'll be evaluated much more coldly. The same way Joe Louis era opponents never get picked to win fantasy fights.

 

Outrageously is a very strong term Kirk too strong. I feel but then I feel modern heavyweights size is outrageously used as an advantage over fighters like Liston and Frazier also is this modern training methods rubbish . Watch some of these modern big heavies they are slow and their work rate is terrible and they don't have any real schooling in such things as feinting and head movement to name just two

 

the opposite applies too, todays fighters get made out to be something theyre not.

Chris Arreola for example, i dont give a **** how big he is, the guy is a bum clubfighter with very little skill and would be that in any era.

 

:hi:CST, I can't seem to get my ole self back:hi:
atsch

 

In a time machine scenario yeah maybe.

But lets say Vlad / any modern HW was born in the 1930s and decided to take up boxing. Would they have been world champions with 1930s training / diets etc?

 

Excuses are only valid for fighters from the 60s eh?

Liston was KOd by a bum, the end. Ali's win over him was overrated, and that's without even questioning the legitimacy of it!