As a youth in the 70's & 80's, I loved the big boys in the heavyweight division... but I had a an affinity for the Lightweight and Welterweight fighters. If we were able to go back in time and collect all of the top welterweights throughout all the way from the 1940's to current day - who would make your top 25 welterweights to enter into the tournament and who would make the championship bout - scheduled for 15 rounds. In no particular order, here are my top 25 welterweights of all time: Am I missing some great fighters...? Uhhh yeah... But I'm not quite a historian yet. Admittedly, my boxing knowledge is inferior to the vast majority of folks that frequent these forums. My apologies in advance. Lol What are your thoughts? Whi is your top 25 and who makes (& wins) the championship bout? Henry Armstrong Sugar Ray Robinson Barney Ross Floyd Mayweather Jr Thomas Hearns Sugar Ray Leonard Jose Napoles Manny Pacquiao Terence Crawford Carlos Palomino Errol Spence Pernell Whitaker Julio Cesar Chavez Roberto Duran Emile Griffith Pernell Whitaker Wilfredo Benitez Marlon Starling Felix Trinidad Oscar De La Hoya Donald Curry Kid Gavilan Pipino Cuevas Charley Burley Shane Mosley Here is my championship fight: Sugar Ray Robinson vs Jose Napoles - SRR wins by KO in the 11th.
Burley and Gavilan seem a bit low, but I agree that Robinson would win a tournament. Although I think Mayweather or Armstrong would meet him in the finals instead of Napoles.
What on earth has Crawford and Spence done to warrant 9th and 11th spot respectively? And even though I really rate Hearns, he does not deserve to sit above Leonard nor does Floyd deserve to sit above both of them. That’s just me. But that being your personal preference is cool. Also think Griffith is a bit low. He deserves a top 10 spot. Gavilan also a bit low. Barney Ross maybe a bit high. interesting reading though.
I agree with @Frankus on Crawford and Spence. I would much rather see Luis Rodriguez, Mickey Walker and Carmen Basilio in your list. Also you have Pernell Whitaker ranked at #12 and at #16. I was never big on Whitaker at this weight let alone calling him an all-time great. An all-time great lightweight, yes! But I'd give you top marks on forming your list and for your passion.
I think almost everyone is missing this bit - In no particular order, here are my top 25 welterweights of all time:
From the 1940's onwards I think you've captured the 10 x fighters with the greatest records at & around WW, in SRR, SRL, Napoles, Armstrong, Griffiths, Gavilan, Hearns, Mayweather, Trinidad & Burley. Assuming achievements at & around the weight are the key criteria, then personally I'd have Luis Manuel Rodriguez and Curtis Cokes ahead of Palomino, Crawford, Spence, Chavez, Benitez, Starling, ODLH, Curry, Cuevas & Mosley. You stipulate 40's onwards, but include Barney Ross, who retired in 38. If you're allowing WWs from the 30's, I'd have Jackie Fields & Jimmy McLarnin, too. If it's all time, then you've got Jack Britton, Ted Kid Lewis, Tommy Ryan, BJW & Mickey Walker that should be in a top 25, imo.
Excellent point Greg and thank you for catching. As I had mentioned, some of my knowledge is fairly limted... but through your comments and educating me, I am continuing to learn about some of the greats that I didn't even know much about. The good news is that its a rabbit hole that I love to go down. Love learning more about the great sport and the individual all time greats.
Thank you John! Your emphasis helps this discussion. ;^). Perhaps we can update the list as a whole to include the other boxers that Greg Price and our other fellow responders have mentioned. Totally love adding fighter that belong in the tournament that I didn't think of. In the end - While I believe that SRR would take it, you can never truly tell what would happen. Forgive me also on some of the fighters that I didn't include as I had them in my head as a weight class somewhere other than WW.
No problem Joe. I know what you mean, whilst nothing beats the thrill of watching a fight you're invested in live, learning about past fighters & even eras can be extremely interesting and rewarding. For what it's worth, based solely on fights contested at & around WW (i.e. ignoring fights in other weight divisions & discounting predicted H2H), my top 20 WWs are: 1) SRR 2) SRL 3) Napoles 4) Armstrong 5) Britton 6) Griffiths 7) Gavilan 8) Hearns 9) Mayweather 10) Fields 11) TK Lewis 12) BJ Walcott 13) Ryan (also my #9 at MW) 14) Trinidad 15) Walker 16) Ross 17) McLarnin 18) Burley (also my #10 at MW) 19) LM Rodriguez 20) Cokes I haven't gone any further than 20, so I've not done the detailed analysis to be confident in the next 5, but off the top of my head Duran, Basilio, Whitaker, YCIII & Pacquiao is my guess for the next 5, though ODLH, Mosely & Curry would have shouts too.
Interesting list, SRL above Armstrong and Britton is certainly an interesting take. H2H wise I agree but the other 2 seem to have much bigger legacies at 147.
Awesome list of WW Monsters Greg. So many great matches could be had with any and all of these fighters! I know I'm new to this stuff, but would be super cool if there were a way to actually have some type of computerized match-ups between each and every fighter on this list. I'm sure it would be difficult taking the human element out of it and trusting some computer to classify each match-up, but it would be cool. Just an FYI - being a Detroit native - I have always been a big Hearns fan... He means a lot to the city still. I was always awestruck by SRR as well. Feel so fortunate to have seen a lot of their fights.
It's not a H2H list, but it's more than a "whose win resume is the deepest" list, too. If I had to define it, I'd say something along the lines of - it's list derived from reviewing their careers at & around WW, including key wins (who they beat, how & when), prime losses (who they lost to, how & when) & overall dominance, to determine how good they were during their prime years, relative to the evolution of the era in which they competed, with the benefit of the doubt given to those who proved it (bit of a mouthful I know!) consistently over a reasonable period of time. i.e. Buster Douglas doesn't appear anywhere near my HW rankings just because he may have been a great fighter on 1 night, he doesn't have the record to prove it. Neither Armstrong nor Britton beat a WW as good as Hearns, though Ross & TKL weren't far off. I don't think Armstrong nor Britton beat 3 x opponents at WW as good as Hearns, Duran & Benetiz. The outstanding WW during SRL's reign was Hearns. The outstanding WW during Armstrong's reign was Burley, who he didn't face. SRL's dominance at the weight impresses me. In addition to the 3 x aforementioned ATG opponents he beat at WW, his record was 29-1, with the sole loss to Duran avenged in his next fight. Armstrong has way more defences, though many were against non-ranked fighters &/or non-natural WWs. His record at WW was around 55-6-2 and whilst some of those losses were past prime, he was still in his 20's for the 2 x Zivic & the Reuben Shank losses (though probably past his absolute peak). Britton has a far deeper win resume, but lost a lot more too. He's around 131-30-22 at the weight. I consider 16 of these losses to be in his prime years. Clearly given the frequency & quality of the opponents he was fighting, he was always going to lose some, but for me, SRL has the best single win, beat the best 3 x opponents at WW and was the most consistently dominant at the weight. All that said, sensible arguments can be made for having Armstrong, Britton & indeed Napoles, ahead of SRL.
Thanks Joe. My list is based on what they achieved in their own era. I don't factor in cross era H2H, too many unknown variables for me. I've really enjoyed studying what each fighter actually did in their own time, though. Yes, Hearns was a great fighter & one of the most exciting in history to watch, imo.
I'd definitely argue that Ross is on the level of Hearns, if not even greater. Benitez is a good win, but I'm sorry I can't give Leonard any credit for that win against a physically drained Roberto Duran. In Britton's case; he beat Benny Leonard and Ted Lewis. I'd argue those wins are definitely on par with SRL's. He's definitely top 5, but I'd rate the other 2 above him.
