An interesting question I'd like to ask the board on ATG's

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Feb 22, 2016.


  1. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Never ceases to amaze me when people rank Tunney in the top LHWs but neglect to mention Greb. Greb has arguably the deepest LHW resume of all time.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Tbf, some people like to rank fighters in only one division.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I asked which light heavyweights cracked Fosters chin?
    You supplied NONE

    Wlad was kod by journeymen Purrity, a part- time fighter in Sanders and average heavyweight Brewster and beaten by Fury. he has stunk out more places then Pepe Le Pew.
    Kovalev has to do it first.You saying he will doesn't cut any ice with me.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Agreed. Central point, you don't need great competition to be considred Great.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Rather than go round in circles about the first part of your post, I thought I jump into Fosters best seven wins at light heavyweight.

    1 ) Tiger. Former middle weight 5'8 inches tall, and with a poor KO record of just 33%. Was age 38 for the Foster fight. Lost a lot of times to lesser names.

    2 ) Cotton. Age 40! Already had lost 23 times. Just a name at this point. 2nd to last fight for Cotton.

    3 ) Depula. Just 19- 6- 3 when he meet Foster. Could not beat an old Tiger. Retired 2 fights after meeting Foster. Not ranked in Ring Magzine annual ratings in 1968 or 1969 ( when the fight took place ) A very weak name to be in anyone's top 7.

    4 ) Quarry. Best known for being Jerry's brother. Highly manufactured on the way up to 35-0. His fight before Foster was vs a 16-12 man. The fight before that was vs a 13-6-3 man. His record is full of no-names. Did he every beat a ring magazine ranked top ten opponent? I doubt it.
    Foster nearly killed him.

    5 ) Rondon. He was ranked #1. A sign how weak the division was. 36-5-1 when he meet Foster, he only won 3 of his last 12 fights, so it's plausible he had seen better days.

    6 ) Kendall. Ranked as high as #7 in ring magazine, he already had lost 4 times prior to meeting Foster and also drew 5 times. Pretty much a filler type of title defense.

    7 ) Finnegan. Ranked as high as #4, he gave Foster a tough fight!

    Unofficial AP scorecard (through 13 completed rounds) - 6-5-2 Foster

    A man with a 43% KO ratio hurt Foster.


    ^^^ After reviewing Fosters best wins, nothing really stands out. He beat his best name guys ( Tiger and Cotton ) when they were very old. Foster had trouble with a #4 ranked guy.

    Thanks for listing his best wins.

    Rondon or Finnegan could be Foster's best wins of the names you listed. Yikes! Kovalev I believe would have an easier time with the same guys.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, you're ignoring all the holes in your post that I drew attention to with mine, and instead wrote facts about Foster's best opponents that suit your position, while conveniently ignoring the central premis, namely that Kovalev's competition is, at the moment, worse.

    Rather than butchering this latest round of glaring bias, I'll just reiterate my position:

    Foster has fought better competition than Kovalev. Kovalev may yet overhaul him. Foster doesn't have a bad chin, no matter how many bizarre contortions you do to try to prove otherwise.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Who fought tougher light heavies at the 175 pound limit in their first 29 fights. Kovalev or Foster?

    I say Kovalev. I also want to point out that Foster lost FOUR times before his 29th fight, and his best seven wins are on the weak side relative to other hall of fame light heavies ranked in the say the top 8.

    At age 32 Kovalev has of title defenses left. You're conveniently using Fosters long career while Kovalev has big fights ahead, possibly with Ward or Stevenson. Either of whom in my opinion would trump Foster's best win at light heavy.

    In fact, Hopkins might have been better than any light heavy Foster beat. It's debatable.

    You never hear Foster mentioned for having a good chin. Usually, it's the opposite.
     
  8. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I dont understand the argument here. Foster didnt beat great LHW competition but Kovalev hasnt either. Kovalev isnt some boxing god. Put him in against the same men who actually beat Foster and he well may lose to them as well because Kovalev has yet to face anyone as good as the worst guy Foster lost to on his way up or in his prime. When a 50 yr old man who has been on the slide for a decade (at least) is your best opponent you have a problem with the depth of your resume. Doug Jones, Mina, Terrell, Foley, Frazier, and Ali were all better than anyone Kovalev has faced. I dont see how anyone can even dispute that. Could Kovalev beat the same guys Foster beat? Maybe. He might also lose. I would love to see him in against someone like Henry Hank who was an all action banger that rarely ever backed down. Talk about a test. Kov and GGG havent had any tests yet.
     
  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Get back to us when Kovalev fights anyone as good as Jones, Mina, Folley, or Terrell.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    My point was you don't need to defeat great competition to be considered great.

    Foster is an example of that.

    Hopkins, old as he is could be viewed as a top win for Foster.

    Ward or Stevenson, I think are better than any light heavy Foster beat. Be sure to check the ages of Tiger and Cotton as they were even more past it than Hopkins was, regardless of age.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Mendoza, this is just ludicrous stuff. Kovalev hasn't fought Ward or Stevenson yet.

    And what is it that makes Tiger "more past it" than Hopkins? He'd just looked excellent in beating Rouse and Torres, he had a fight of the year contender right ahead of him in DePaula, in which he also looked good - you think Hopkins has a FOTY in him?? You think Hopkins looked as good taking a split against 14-1 Shumenov as Tiger looked against Rouse?? A fight in which he managed 30 punches a round??

    Your living in a pure fantasy world. It beggar's belief sometimes.

    Yes. You are right. Fighters don't need great competition in order to be great. But everything else you've said in this thread reeks. Why don't you calm down a bit? You don't have to batter every fighter in every pro's sphere in order to make Kovalev appear better. Do you know how his opposition would look if someone took the bizarre approach you just did to Foster's comp? You come off like a lunatic sometimes.
     
  12. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Hopkins hasnt looked as good as the **** Tiger that Foster fought in years. YEARS.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    He will, and when he happens either Ward or Stevenson will be better than ANY light heavyweight opponent Foster gave a title shot to. Agreed?
    I'd take the Hopkins who fought Kovalev over the Tiger who fought Foster. Hopkins is well preserved and has not been in many tough fights. Tiger by the time he meet Foster had plenty of tough fights


    We agree. That was my central point of the thread. I think I pretty much nailed Fosters competition, which most view as weak, and think Kovalev would have an easier time with the same guys.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't think Stevenson is clearly better than a lot of these guys, no. I don't think he's a class apart. I do think he's the lineal champ and I think it would be a very serious win for Kovalev for that reason. Ward, I think, would be a special win; but it does depend a little bit.

    What i'd say is that Stevenson and Ward as scalps make Kovalev very dominant and put him among the greatest light-heavyweights for that reason.


    Hopkins holds a huge stylistic advantage; even so, he's so much further past-prime than Tiger, I'd take Tiger.

    I think your insistence that Tiger was further past-prime against Foster than Hopkins was against Kovalev is astonishing. It's really ridiculous. It's an indefensible remark. Nothing underlines your bias more clearly than this, and your avoidance of the several questions I asked you in favour of a h2h prediction.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I agree with every fibre of my being. I agree so much it's like I'm inside you right now as I read this.