Anyone else think highly of John L Sullivan?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Dec 6, 2007.



  1. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    I've never seen him fight, so i can't tell.

    To have opinion of Sullivan's fighting skills is like believing in God. Believing in something that there's no proof of except hear-saying.
     
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Never saw the man fight, so no need to comment on him.
     
  3. C. M. Clay II

    C. M. Clay II Manassah's finest! Full Member

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  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Do you believe that John L Sullivan even existed?

    I mean there is no proof.
     
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Is there anyone out there...am i alone...do i even exist...film me QUICK!
     
  6. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    Yes, there is.

    There are books and newspaper articles etc. about the man. Many people saw him fight. However their evaluations about his boxing skills are subjective.
     
  7. amhlilhaus

    amhlilhaus Well-Known Member Full Member

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    everything is subjective, you can watch the same fight as 10 other people and they would probably have 10 different reasons why such and such fighter won, and how.

    but if multiple accounts give you the same consensus, then where's the debate? there were plenty of accounts of him being both the most splendid physical specimen they'd ever seen, as well as the quickest, hardest hitting and aggressive fighter up to his time by those with extensive knowledge of such things.
     
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We just don’t know and we will never know. One point that Corbett made concerning Sullivan that gives me some pause... Jim stated that when Sullivan fought he had a tendency to slap his left hand against his thigh just before launching his right hand. Can’t imagine any great ATG making that type of move. It’s counter intuitive in terms of what we know concerning great boxing skill.
     
  10. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Source?
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The argument can be convincingly made that the gap between prime Sullivan and his nearest contender was greater than it has ever been between champion and best challenger.
     
  12. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    I would agree.
     
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    roughdiamond likes this.
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jim Corbett later published a book describing that night. We join his account as the first round begins:

    "Now, I knew that the most dangerous thing I could do was to let Sullivan work me into a corner when I was a little tired or dazed, so I made up my mind that I would let him do this while I was still fresh. Then I could find out what he intended doing when he got me there. In a fight, you know, when a man has you where he wants you, he is going to deliver the best goods he has.

    From the beginning of the round Sullivan was aggressive-wanted to eat me up right away. He came straight for me and I backed and backed, finally into a corner. While I was there I observed him setting himself for a right-hand swing, first slapping himself on the thigh with his left hand-sort of a trick to balance himself for a terrific swing with his right. But before he let the blow go, just at the right instant, I sidestepped out of the corner and was back in the middle of the ring again, Sullivan hot after me.

    I allowed him to back me into all four corners, and he thought he was engineering all this, that it was his own work that was cornering me. But I had learned what I wanted to know - just where to put my head to escape his blow if he should get me cornered and perhaps dazed. He had shown his hand to me.



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    John L. Sullivan
    In the second round he was still backing me around the ring. I hadn't even struck at him yet, and the audience on my right hissed me for running away and began to call me 'Sprinter.' Now I could see at a glance that Sullivan was not quite near enough to hit me, so suddenly I turned my side to him, waved both hands to the audience and called out, 'Wait a while! You'll see a fight.'


    ...So far Sullivan hadn't reached me with anything but glancing blows, and it was my intention, when the third round started, to hit him my first punch, and I felt that it must be a good one! If my first punch didn't hurt him, he was going to lose all respect for my hitting ability.

    So, with mind thoroughly made up, I allowed him to back me once more into a corner. But although this time I didn't intend to slip out, by my actions I indicated that I was going to, just as I had before. As we stood there, fiddling, he crowding almost on top of me, I glanced, as I had always done before, first to the left, then to the right, as if looking for some way to get out of this corner. He, following my and thinking I wanted to make a getaway, determined that he wouldn't let me out this time!

    For once he failed to slap himself on the thigh with his left hand, but he had his right hand all ready for the swing as he was gradually crawling up on me. Then, just as he finally set himself to let go a vicious right I beat him to it and loosed a left-hand for his face with all the power I had behind it. His head went back and I followed it up with a couple of other punches and slugged him back over the ring and into his corner. When the round was over his nose was broken.

    At once there was pandemonium in the audience! All over the house, men stood on their chairs, coats off, swinging them in the air. You could have heard the yells clear to the Mississippi River!

    But the uproar only made Sullivan the more determined. He came out of his corner in the fourth like a roaring lion, with an uglier scowl than ever, and bleeding considerably at the nose. I felt sure now that I would beat him, so made up my mind that, though it would take a little longer, I would play safe.



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    "Gentleman Jim" Corbett
    From that time on I started doing things the audience were seeing for the first time, judging from the way they talked about the fight afterwards. I would work a left-hand on the nose, then a hook into the stomach, a hook up on the jaw again, a great variety of blows, in fact; using all the time such quick side-stepping and footwork that the audience seemed to be delighted and a little bewildered, as was also Mr. Sullivan. That is, bewildered, for I don't think he was delighted.


    In the twelfth round we clinched, and, with the referee's order, 'Break away,' I dropped my arms, when Sullivan let go a terrific right-hand swing from which I just barely got away; as it was it just grazed the top of my head. Some in the audience began to shout 'foul!' but I smiled and shook my head, to tell them, 'I don't want it that way.'

    When we came up for the twenty-first round it looked as if the fight would last ten or fifteen rounds longer. Right away I went up to him, feinted with my left and hit him with a left-hand hook alongside the jaw pretty hard, and I saw his eyes roll. . . . Summoning all the reserve force I had left I let my guns go, right and left, with all the dynamite Nature had given me, and Sullivan stood dazed and rocking. So I set myself for an instant, put just 'a little more' in a right and hit him alongside the jaw. And he fell helpless on the ground, on his stomach, and rolled over on his back! The referee, his seconds and mine picked him up and put him in his corner; and the audience went wild."
     
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  15. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Do you have the post fight interview? In the link Donovan says Sullivan chops his left before throwing his right, but at the same time Donovan also saw Sullivan as the best heavyweight technician boxing had seen.