Anyone see a pattern with Freddie Roach?

2 things for me.

Freddie Roach isnt the same as he used to be, simply because of the Parkinsons, its limiting his speech and advice. He need not be in the corner, he isnt like he used to be. And a fighter needs a second opinion and advice during a fight.

But some of it is also down to the fighters, it seems to me like his fighters do it their way anyway, at least more so since Freddie's illness worsened.

Even if he could give them advice, I dont necessarily think they would listen. They seem like lone wolves now and taking advantage of the situation, and its no coincidence the fighters are going down like flys because of it.

But you'd expect world champ fighters, fighting at elite level would realize Freddie cant do what he used to, and look elsewhere.....perhaps they are to comfortable?

 

Great post. Internet boxing fans are very fickle lol. I think the Roach hype bubble has burst a bit lately, but only because he had earned such a high reputation to begin with.

I don't think Roach is a miracle worker and I was 1 of his biggest critics (well not critic but just pointing out the obvious that he isn't a miracle worker) but at one point he had about 6 or 7 world champions.

It anoys me when you get idiots here talking rubbish about Roach now as though they know better than him. It's very hard to run an amateur gym, successful amateur gym, so when you have a guy like Roach who has ran one of the best gyms in the world, trained over a dozen champs and got a guy to p4p number it's just completely disrespectful when people who've probably never trained in a gym in their lives critisizing a ledegend of the game like Roach, as if they know better.

Khan, Chavez Jr and Pacquiao are all much better fighters than they were when they joined Roach and nobody on this forum could have improved them more than Roach did.

 

If Bernard Hopkins goes to roach for help, that tells a story! Roach fighters are always exciting!

 

:good

 

Now tell me how after 60 fights fighting the likes of

Barrera x2
Morales x3
Marquez x3(excluding this fight)
Larios
Solis
Diaz
ODLH
Hatton
Margarito
Cotto
Clottey
Bradley
Mosley

and many other quality fighters, this fight with Marquez has exposed him?

Hype jobs who have beaten no one and then step up their comp get exposed.

Dont give me this Marquez has beaten him 4 times he has not, he won the last 2, the other two were as close as anything and could have gone either way.

So apart from being caught by a massive shot, how has he been expsosed? and what has he been exposed as?

 

Can't believe so many people are shitting on Roach. On paper, sure, he's having a bad run. But with those results you have to consider:

• Pac-JMM III - Ok, Roach was indeed complacent here.
• Khan-PEDerson - Not much Roach can do if Khan can't settle down (or if PEDerson cheats).
• Khan-Garcia - Again, not much Roach can do if Khan can't box smart.
• Pac-Bradley - They actually won this.
• Chavez-Martinez - Wasn't Martinez the heavy favourite anyway?
• Pac-JMM IV - Their strategy was spot on and seemed to be working. One punch can change anything and everything.

 

:good

 

According to you we shouldn't have seen Pac in a ring after 1996 :-(

 

When did the Brit forum become overrun with trolls and the deranged?

 

OK, we have to look at two things, what is an "exposure", and what is just "losing a fight".

Pacquiao didnt just lose on the weekend, he got taken out real bad by a superb punch.

The fact of the matter is, there are many people who believe Pacquiao has NEVER beaten Juan Manuel Marquez. And even more people believe Marquez just has Pacquiao's number, thats why Pacquiao finds it so difficult.

Marquez IMO has Pacquiao in his back pocket. He knows him inside out, but better still, knows his own game, inside out. And he has the ability to translate that into a gameplan, and has the smartness needed to pull it of.

While I would say, Pacquiao wasnt exposed as badly as, Ricky Hatton in this fight, for instance. He did have some joy and was up on my scorecard. But the more I look at it, the more I realize that Marquez was allowing that to happen for a reason, and he could, because he knows he can against the man he has fought 3 times previously. He is basically 2 steps ahead.

He was letting Pacquiao get excited, because the plan was to feint low and go up top with the right. We saw this on the first knockdown, in order for him to pull this of, he had to lead Pacquiao into a mental game, where he thinks he is perfectly safe and can come forward with no worries, that he can make mistakes, and not pay.

It was genius from Marquez and he meant every single bit of it. He knew what to expect, he knew what to do, and he exposed Manny Paacquiao finally for what he was all along. All in all a reckless brainless fighter, when playing his game, looks one of the best there has ever been, but when a fighter is smart enough to take that step back and adjust, he is very very beatable.

A true masterclass from Marquez, I know the second knockdown is the one everybody is talking about, but the first was a thing of beauty. The feint and shot up top, stunned Pacquiao, stunned us, but he saw it coming and recovered quickly. The second knockdown he didnt see coming and he literally ran onto the shot, instantly increasing the power of Marquez's punch.

Marquez is one of the best I have ever seen. Because he knows how to throw a punch, he is a technician, he can get his whole body behind the punch, but not only that, he can box using his brain, counter punch, and he can fight. Can Manny Pacquiao do all those things? Because for me he can fight and he can bring it, but he is not on the same planet as Marquez and a few other fighters, technical wise.

Understood, but was that KO really as bad as this?.....you'd struggle to find a worse knockout, it was brutal, we dont see it often, this was the worst I've seen since Paul Williams-Sergio Martinez. Its bound to have an effect on the fighter, especially in a fight of such pride and magnitude, with it being the 4th. To get knocked down twice in a fight by your bitter rival, and not just any 2 knockdowns, these were classy full force knockdowns.

I dont think Pacquaio will ever be the same after this fight. If he continues to fight on (which I think he will) I can see more of the same coming. Marquez has showed the blueprint, Bradley showed a way.

 

I agree with these and just to add to Chavez-Martinez.. not much Roach can do if Chavez won't let his hands go... Roach hasn't done much wrong.. things just haven't gone his way or his fighter hasn't followed the game plan

 

A decent trainer would strengthen the weakness,not avoid it.

 

How do you strengthen a chin?