Archie Moore vs Cleveland Williams

I gave fight for fight comparisons.Nothing convenient ,just the truth.Which of course can be inconvenient for some!

 

So you don’t/ cannot dispute that Terry and Ted were reasonable wins similar to the wins he had over billy Daniels and Wayne Bethea pre-bullet?

 

Yes I do, neither were ever anything but journeymen,Daniels was a ranked fighter at one point,but you keep ignoring the facts and spinning things ,it's what you do.You are the singularly most unrewarding poster to debate with.

 

So just to be clear. Still no mention of any signature knockouts or wins for Cleveland to prove he was a tougher opponent than Valdez much less that he was this dangerous guy to someone with Moores record of accomplishments. I just want everyone to be clear on that. Pointing out that Earnie Shavers (who I also think is ridiculously overrated) has no big wins, or that Machen (who Williams didnt beat) thought he we was fast does nothing to advance that argument. We all realize that right?

 

Hold it right there. You went too far. Nobody beats Candy As.s McDaniels. Nobody!!! He never lost a fight. Except that one time, and that other time.

 

That's nothing. So many excuses.

 

Williams was a rated top ten fighter in1961,1962,1963 and 1964. After being shot late 64 ,he was never rated again.

 

Your criteria is that he has no signature wins to prove he was this ko puncher.Yes?
What are Mac Foster's or Ron Lyle's? Or are they not ,in your estimation big punchers?
Curtess Sheppard has no signature wins ,anybody doubt he was a big puncher?

 

Nobody is projecting Mac Foster or Curtis Shepherd as a world beater. For Cleveland Williams to beat Archie Moore, a legendary figure and elite heavyweight contender, that would indeed be promoting Williams to that kind of stature. A status without foundation.

In those circumstances, evidence is required. Unfortunately it is entirely lacking in the signature knockout department.

 

'I got 13 bullets in my body. I never tattled, I wear them with pride because I earned them in battle. Smiled at the shooter as I stared down the barrel. Whoever involved got slaughtered like Cattle!!!'
AR-AB

 

In 90 something fights, Williams was KOd a grand total of 8 times. 5 of which he was absolutely shot to ****. 1 to the greatest of all time. 2 to One of if not the hardest punching heavyweights in history. That hardly constitutes as "always."

Moron.

 

They were being kind to Big Cat because his story is indeed tragic- as far as ring results can you point out which KO win was electrifying or notable - Big Cat may have had power but it did not show up in his results - In fact I think it was a lot of HYPE
A story starts and people follow it- repeat it- Big Cat was more muscled and chiseled at 6'3 than most fighters of his day but I think the legend/myth towers over the facts or the ring results- Shavers actually KO'd or dropped some quality opponents

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/...eavyweight-the-tragedy-of-cleveland-williams/

 

Along with Ali, Holyfield, Frazier, etc

 

their's a reason they called him "big cat." and I don't think it's because he had whiskers