Hear me out. First Ngannou pushed Fury close. Now Rico with Usyk. It's still my tendency to think both Fury and Usyk took their opponents too lightly. But even Usyk, the consummate pro? I know there's a school of thought that says both guys were ageing as well. Listen, I criticised both fights as gimmicks. Didn't watch either live. But is there something more in all this? Are these elite fighters from other disciplines simply able to perform well in boxing anyway? Better than a lot of us hard-core fans would like to think? And we need to get used to it because this is the new norm? I know that AJ v Ngannou is the outlier here. I'm just exploring a few thoughts which are swirling in my head and would appreciate any input.
These fighters are human beings. They aren't video game characters. When you step into the squared circle with a 6'5+ 260 pound elite athlete that has spent his entire life actually lacing up gloves and boxing, the idea that you can just push a button and immediately get rid of him is silly. My guy has more experience and is a higher level, I cast Fireball!, and your dude dies! Real life don't work that way. Hell, in actual team sports where you can harness the abilities of an entire group of people who are better than another group, there are still tons of upsets. That's why there are never any teams in the NFL that go undefeated. It ain't like MMA and kickboxing sent us two absolute scrubs. They sent a 6'6 275 pound guy who is solid muscle and known as the hardest hitter on the planet for Fury. Then they sent a 6'5 260 pound guy who is more ripped/muscular than AJ and who dominated his sport for over a decade for Usyk. These guys are in great shape, they're tough as nails, and they can fight. Why would anyone think they'd just be walks in the park? Especially for two boxers who aren't KO artists and have to finesse their way to victories most of the time. And that's also not taking into account the surprise factor. Fury and Usyk had no tape on these guys in a boxing ring. No way to prepare for whatever style they're going to bring into the ring. Everything has to be adjusted to on the fly. When AJ had some tape on Ngannou from his fight with Fury he saw all of Ngannou's flaws. Feinted him and blasted him out. Didn't have to figure it out in real time because he had the data.
I think at heavyweight when you have 2 big powerful athletes anything can happen. Obviously you favor the experienced boxer but the physicality at heavyweight is different. It's why in Australia you see former NRL players have some success at heavyweight like when Paul Gallen just went full bore at Lucas Browne in the first round. Then you see at the lighter weights like with Jake Paul's fights he takes out these MMA guys because they are not physical enough also Mayweather was not out muscled by Conor. Rico and Ngannou are two big power houses that can stand up to punishment. The other example is as much as he is a clown Logan Paul is a big strong athlete and although he got his ass kicked he was able to soak up a lot of heavy clean blows from the much smaller Mayweather. Another example is when Paul Gallen was able to absorb tremendous punishment from Justis Huni for 10 rounds. Whether it is MMA, kick boxing, Rugby League these guys like boxers are built for war.
The non-boxers have plenty of tape to study and prepare for, and the actual boxers tend to under train and under prepare themselves both mentally and physically, along with having no tape to study. Most of these fights have been at heavyweight aswell where the skill level is going to be lower, allowing for non boxer combat athletes who are just big and athletic to have success if they can maximise their advantages.
For the ten-thousandth time, YES. There have ben successful kickboxers in boxing befire, boxers in MMA, MMA in boxing, etc. They are all crosstrained. I told everyone this was going to be a good fight.
I think it's more of an issue of overestimating modern fighters, as opposed to underestimating guys from other sports. Floyd Mayweather showed what true all-time greats do to guys from other sports when he whupped Mcgregor.
Floyd actually did this twice. The second being Tenshin - though Floyd was obvious much bigger even though he was old - I didn't enjoy seeing that I agree with @MidniteProwler above regarding the sheer physicality of the heavyweights, but those examples are a bit different from Fury/Usyk who were/are thought of as being the best of the best in their own discipline yet had too hard a time dealing with a cross over opponent even at heavyweight. It just isn't going to happen the other way around. Fury for all his bluster was never going to step into the cage with Ngannou, and Usyk would get decimated in a kickboxing match. But I agree with the above that physicality allows them to fight beyond expectations, and it is probably also why Joshua who also has that physicality (plus boxing skills) made light work of Ngannou while Fury and Usyk didn't look so great
We're over-estimating bro boxers sadly. Once upon a time, top of the food chain certainly not anymore. In most of these cross-over fights, it's the cross over dude being enhanced. Pro boxers should dominate their own discipline. I still think Usyk would win the rematch more decisively though.
Didnt mayweather lose 3 rounds and take 10 to TKO mcgregor? Have a difficult fight with logan paul? I think HW size and power also makes things different. Ngannou carries much more one punch threat that any LW or WW. If Lewis hung out his chin for a free shot he would get slept by Ngannou.
Floyd walked McGregor down like a basic Mexican slugger behind a high guard grinning almost the entire time. You rewatch the fight and you can literally identify countless times he declines to take an opening to the head and changes the shot to a less damaging place. He was defensively responsible and wasn't being careless but he had zero respect for him whatsoever as a threat and he never earned any. For the last four rounds he went after him and showed him what happens when he actually intends to knock him out. This fight was night and day and has little relevance, McGregor does not have anywhere near the ability or intelligence of Verhoeven in a boxing ring. I respected how tough McGregor was for those last couple of rounds he kept trying to do something.
No Simply verhoeven is a very good boxer, that's all. Kick boxing is not the same as mma. Kick boxers know how to fight. No gay stuff rubbing your winnie on other guys. Kick boxers need to be taken seriously. mcgregor and nganou are trash. No way they are underestimated, they are simply trash, they can't box to save their lives.
if Fury or Usyk could punch like AJ, Dubois, or Wardley, neither would have been embarrassed. For the sport of boxing, the issue is sending in pure boxer types who aren’t big punchers. Rico was ****ing great, but he kept leaving himself open to uppercuts. He ate a bunch from Usyk when he was fresh. Had that been AJ, Dubois, or Wardley in there, he wouldn’t have stayed fresh very long once uppercuts landed. guarantee you Eddie has already offered up AJ to Turki for just this reason. Helps build the funny storyline of “AJ saves the sweet science yet again”, and unless Rico starts tucking that chin a lot better, he’s in trouble against AJ’s right uppercut.
People that have never done some or all of these things are underestimating them: 1. Been in a fight 2. Competed in boxing / combat sports 3. Competed or sparred as a boxer against MMA / Kickboxers of a similar level. Of course elite MMA / Kick boxers, who are gigantic units of men can at least compete well with the best boxers in boxing. There’s footage of Rico sparring Fury eleven years ago, and all of these guys train boxing with top tier boxers anyway…and ironically, I don’t even think this would be necessary for them to compete well in boxing on top of their own combat experience and talent.. Hearn and co, and the way of the golden geese of boxing like AJ in boxing screwed Ngannou before he stepped into the ring, and he wasn’t prepared for the antics of pro boxing coming from UFC. Not saying he’d beat AJ otherwise, but he wasn’t right.
I don't know the right answer. Conor McGregor, Ngannou, and Verhoefen performed brilliantly in their debut fights against ATG. It seems to me that even the ATG opponents from the Top 10 would not show that well.