Arguello vs JMM

Oh, **** this is at 135?!?

Marquez was unable to step out of range at this weight. He's even more in range and gets blasted.

 

You've lost the plot.

 

Plenty scored it to MAB, I can see it 7-5 either way tops, there's no point discussing anything Morales with you, you're too much of a fan, you probably had it 120-108 Morales focusing your scoring on clean effective cuteness

 

Handspeed/footspeed? Footwork? Alexis is technically better defensively but JMM has evasive footwork of his own. Marquez can work at a faster pace, putting combinations together more regularly, I'd say he's better conditioned. Arguello has the better power

 

At 135 he was stunned by Diaz and sat on his arse by Katsidis.

 

Also,Alexis was a great 15 round fighter. Conditioning was no issue for him even when making 126/130 on the day.

 

Has JMM ever shown stamina problems?

 

Marquez has been stunned and dropped throughout his career,whether he was a featherweight or a lightweight.Using this as reasoning as to why Arguello would be him is incredibly flawed.


Personally,I think Marquez would give Arguello fits regardless of the weight or how devastating a puncher Arguello is.Ramirez did a fine job of countering a prime Arguello and gave Arguello hell in their fight(probably should have won by atleast a point,too) so it's hardly like Arguello was invincible at the weight

 

arguello was definitely open to an upset in ten rounders, but 12 or especially 15 is a tougher task.

He didn't seem to be able to adapt his style to a shorter distance.Too one-paced and robotic in his approach, but his power,size, durability and steadyness could overcome that over the full 15 against most.

 

A few things:

-JMM has clearly lost the ability to step out of range and counter as he used to. He was much more nimble at the lower weights
-Ramirez clearly won that fight, and is also a different proposition to Marquez (southpaw and naturally bigger)
-Arguello has the bigger firepower

One is a far more natural Lightweight than the other IMO. It's no secret that Marquez has been ascending weights just to chase Pac'. As good a fighter as he is (one of the best all-round punchers I've ever seen) the game he wants to play was murder against Arguello.

Marquez wasn't elusive. Nor was Arguello. It'd be a firefight that Arguello would win (IMO)

Marquez has become more offensively minded post-Pac II. That cannot be denied. The fact that his defensive reflexes have clearly dwindled (and he was always hittable) cannot be denied either.

Ramirez was over 10. This would be over the championship distance and Arguello hits harder than anyone Marquez has faced (IMO anyway, of course it's arguable with Pacman)

I appreciate your opinion, but the fact is, he's been dropped at Lightweight by lesser offensive fighters than Arguello. If this was a matchup at 126 or 130, I'd make the same comparison based on whoever dropped him there :good

Arguellos timing, counter punching ability and precision is being undermined here. JMM is great at it, Arguello better, his 135lb comp' is better and more diverse and he beat tank like squat aggressors at the weight (Mancini>Katsidis for one) with less hassle than Marquez.

 

My point was that using instances of a fighter being dropped in other fights as to why he'd lose is a flawed argument.Marquez has always demonstrated fantastic recuperative powers,even as recently against Katsidis.


By the way,Marquez had a far,far easier time with Katsidis than Arguello had with Mancini.Katsidis was game and made it exciting but he lost every round besides the one where he knocked Marquez down in.Mancini gave Arguello hell and was in a very close fight before Arguello almost took his head off with that right cross.Let's give Mancini more credit than just a simply game effort.

 

I agree with pretty much all of this. To clarify; I agree entirely about Mancini. And I maintain he was a far better fighter than Katsidis, which is part of my point. Arguello was the better Lightweight, if that was Mancini in there and not Katsidis we'd see a far more competitive matchup than Ray had with Alexis IMO. Katsidis is a good fighter and I'm a big fan of his (very big fan in fact) and he put in a very game showing against JMM (and the left hook was class) but he is no great shakes and he did push Marquez hard in the early going.

I know exactly what you're saying, and I agree that Marquez's powers of recovery are second to none. But against a far harder puncher than Katsidis with some of the best finishing ability around? That's worse news for JMM that even Manny coming back at him IMO once he gets up IMO.

I just think Arguello is the far better fighter and not stylistically disadvantaged here :good

 

I gave Morales 8 rds in that fight.... but apologies for heading off topic.

Arguello would not lose 1 fight to Marquez in a 10 fight series, just too big & powerful & JMMs defense only speeds up the process.

 

Irrelevant, there wouldn`t be time for stamina to play a part anyway, Arguello would knock him out before the championship rounds, maybe even brutally judging by Marquez`s heart & refusal to stay down.

 

Arguello stops him late. Alexis hit too damn hard, and Juan isnt excatly that hard to hit, especially at 135lbs.

Would be competitive before the stoppage tho.