The story is that the NSC did lend money to Johnson, and even some of Johnson's comments seem to indicate such. There's also no doubt at all that Johnson had a written agreement to face Langford in London in a bout that was origiannly scheduled for Feb 22nd of 1909, but later moved to May 24th of that same year.
Sounds similiar to what Tom O'Rourke said he saw when Johnson and Langford met; "I saw Langford and Johnson box two years ago in Boston. On that occasion, Langford, who weighed only 138 pounds, had Johnson down for the count in the second round. The referee took his time in counting the seconds, so that Johnson was able to recover by the time he got up. After that Johnson took no chances and won at the end of fifteen rounds." - quote of O'Rourke's taken from the Feb 8th, 1909 Ogden Standard
This fight was for Johnson's coloured Heavyweight title.Johnson weighed 185 and Langford 156.Johnson stated in his auto biography that if Langford thought he knocked him down he must be punchdrunk . I suppose it boils down to beleive what you want to beleive
Which quote do you think we should lend credence to? the one C Moyle has provided from Mes Combats , or the one Johnson gave in his autobiography In the Ring and Out?
Then maybe for the sake of objectiveness we shouldn't believe in one story or the other, and just say that there's conflicting accounts of what may or may not have happened, including from Johnson himself.
Is this reply for me? If so ,I think a match between Johnson and Langford would have held interest at the time scale you have suggested .Langford has no bigger admirer than me, he was a terrific fighter,and I'm sure that Johnson did not want to risk a return fight with the physically more mature Langford, as time went on.How much such a fight would have netted Johnson is hard to say ,we do know he made a fortune for defending his crown against a shot Jeffries a fight against Langford would not have been as remunerative and would also have been considerably riskier,imo.
National Sporting Club, Ltd., Covent Garden, W. C., London, Sept. 19, 1908 Gentlemen, I undertake and agree to carry out my agreement with Sam Langford on the 22nd of February, 1909, on the same term and conditions as already arranged with Langford, viz: One-thousand pounds purse ($5,000) and one-third of the interest in any biscopic pictures that may be taken. At the same time allow me to tender my thanks to you for the courtesy to have extended to myself and my manager, Mr. Sam Fitzpatrick, whilst we have been in this country. I am, gentlemen, yours faithfully. Jack Johnson (signed)
Not surprisingly, Johnson changed his mind[and his manager] later,great fighter but a bit of an unprincipled **** I think.
Johnson stated in his book In The Ring And Out ,that he paid all Sam Mcvey's funeral expenses ,when his old opponent caught pneumonia and passed away,just wondered if you have any info confirming this ?
Take into account that Jonhson was not doing very well financially himself. The story was repeated a few days ago... will get some finer details.
I think this is fair, but the poster Mcvey won't put much stock into Langford scoring the knock down. If the Langford knockdown is true that will be at least three middle to super middle sized fighters that floored Johnson. ( Choynski, Langford, Ketchel ). The other quality super middle weight Johnson fought in O'Brien seemed to edge him in a draw according to news reports. I have no doubt the Johnson vs Langford fight could have happened. Histroy could have been made.
Yes, I do say that Johnson was floored by two middle to super middle weight sized guys in Choynski and Ketchel. If Langford dropped Johnson, that would make three different fighters ranging from 156 to 168 who floored Papa Jack. If you want me to re-post the detailed round by round report of the NY Times where another middle to super middle seemed to edge Johnson in a fight that was scored a draw, just ask. See we can get alone just fine.:thumbsup